The following interview is a conversation we had with Brian Lozes, founder and CEO of Kinemagic, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: $3 Million Raised to Power the Future of Industrial Immersive Experiences

Brian Lozes
Yeah, thank you for having me, Brian. 

Brett
Yeah, so before we can talk about what you’re building, can we just start with a quick summary of who you are and a bit more about your background? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah, I’m an engineer, trained engineer out of school, and have spent my entire professional career around heavy industrial facilities. We’re talking utilities that provide power, chemical plants that make all the product or the feed goods for the products that we consume, all the way into oil and gas facilities that supply energy for the world. And aside from that, I’ve always been this big technology enthusiast, and I’ve always had a sweet spot for the idea of pairing technology to nearly enable a larger, more complicated and dangerous industry into better performance. So as I was working, projects and supporting operations for these big facilities have been starting to see opportunities to bring new technologies into that space and challenge the way you work. 

Brett
Wow. Very cool. And I see there that in 2017 to 2019, you were vice president of VR, is that correct? 

Brian Lozes
That’s right. 

Brett
So that must have been very early days on VR, right? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah. So were a part of an engineering firm at the time, years ago, and we’re working with some customers who are starting to ask, hey, it would be nice when our stakeholders, they walk these places as they’re being built and they’re saying they’d like them to be changed. It would be nice if our stakeholders could walk them down before they existed. So while were designing these facilities, firsthand, that was kind of living the problem statement that we would eventually build to. 

Brett
Nice. Super cool. And two questions we like to ask just to better understand what makes you tick as a founder. First one, what CEO do you admire the most and what do you admire about that? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah. Reed Hastings, founder of Netflix. And what I admire most about Reed is I think in years to come, he may be looked at as kind of the godfather of the modern technology working culture, where you’re talking about radical candor and transparency to make sure that everybody is behind the mission of what your company is looking to do. So I really like the framework that he revealed to the world nice. 

Brett
That’s such a good call out. What about books? Is there a specific book that’s had a major impact on you as a founder? 

Brian Lozes
Well, I’m going to go back to read again. He’s got a book called the no Rules Rule. It’s the Netflix and the culture of Reinvention. And so if you like what he’s about, his book really is a playbook about how they integrate that in Netflix. And it’s made it very easy for us to understand why you do certain things and then for us to implement those same cultural elements in your company. 

Brett
Nice. That’s amazing. 

Brian Lozes
Yeah. 

Brett
I feel like Netflix is one of those first companies to really put their culture out there in the public. I can’t remember who it was. Their team was maybe it was like their head of HR or chief people out there. But she put that slide deck out. That became very one of my takeaways from that was just their it’s been years, but I think it was like a culture of excellence. And they just talked a lot about how they have a culture of excellence. And by making that such top priority, it essentially forces people out of the company and makes it clear when they’re not a fit, when they’re not an excellent performer, which I thought was just super cool and super smart. 

Brian Lozes
We’ve lived some of those things before reading these books and have had to make choices around them. And then after reading the book and seeing similar outcomes, it’s so validating to see such a massively successful company being perspective about these things. So, yeah, we have a lot to relate to what they’re going what their ethos projects. 

Brett
Isn’t that fun when that happens? I’ve had that happen a few times in my life. I had that with category creation, which is what I’m obsessed with. We were doing it for four or five years, and then I read called Play Bigger and it said it was a thing. I was like, oh, holy s***. It’s a thing that we’re doing. It’s not some thing that was just in my head. It’s something that other people are doing as well. 

Brian Lozes
You think at the time you’re taking a big risk and trying something new. And when it works out well, you’re like, all right. And then when you hear that validated elsewhere, it helps you to build confidence in making more decisions like that. 

Brett
Yes, absolutely. Awesome. Well, let’s switch gears here and let’s go deeper into the company. So take us back to day one or the days leading up to day one. What’s the origin story? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah, and I think I alluded to this a little bit earlier. I was designing operating these big, complicated facilities. And what we saw in the world of projects is that facilities were designed and then they were being constructed in the field. And you watch them erect and stakeholders would walk it because it’s intuitive for them to walk it down. It’s not intuitive for them to visualize a complex object on a computer screen. And when they walk it, they’d say, well, I don’t like where that valve is placed. Maybe I can’t reach it. I don’t like where that piece of equipment is placed because it’s difficult to maintain, and oftentimes you end up spending extra money to fix that. And it’s always very expensive. There are documented cost currents that show the further along a project is in construction, the more expensive changes become. And it’s a real big problem where as a country, we spend trillions of dollars every year on capital projects, and there’s empirical data that’s showing upwards of 8% to 10% of that money is wasted every year just due to construction related rework. 

Brian Lozes
So we built it once, let’s reconstruct it again, so that we felt like that was a pretty big opportunity to fix. And the best part was a customer of ours came to us who understood the problem and said, I think after trying virtual reality technology, we could have an opportunity to expose our stakeholders to that site so they could go vet it and find the problems. And that was the swirling of all those things, and then trying VR firsthand and realizing could take you to another location that came together and said, oh, wait, there’s a real opportunity to address a serious problem in this world. And the real neat part here, as we may talk about at some point, is that’s where it started and it’s continued to evolve over time. 

Brett
And what was that like, leaving your job to start this company? What was going on in your head? Just like the psychology of an entrepreneur there? And what were those conversations like with your family, friends and colleagues? Did people think you were insane? Or what were those conversations like? 

Brian Lozes
Ours is a little different. We were able to, as we started as a business here within a mid size engineering company, they were very entrepreneurial as well. And so were able to make a deal to go create this company. So were able to build some momentum with one organization and then create a company of our own. So it was very nice to have investors, if you will, right out the gate who believed in what were doing to help us really spring forward. Having the right partners of the room is a big deal. 

Brett
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And can you talk to us about traction and what some of those growth numbers look like today? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah, so traction has been very exciting for us. We’ve got now several Fortune 100 companies using our product across the globe, and bunches more using it in pockets ranging from European areas to the Middle East to the Asia across North America. And what’s exciting is they all start there’s, typically a pilot project and pilot application. And the success of that pilot every time is resulting in multiplication what they use inside their organization. So it’s pretty neat. And we multiply year over year with revenue, with the number of individual customers that we have on board, and it just seems to be accelerating. 

Brett
Wow, that’s amazing. 

Brett
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Brett
Now take us back to the very first time you put on a VR headset. What was that like for you? Was that like this big mind blowing experience when you’re like, wow, this is going to change everything? Or was it more of kind of a slow process where you put it on blame the pit and just became more interested over time? 

Brian Lozes
Some people we see, they put it on the first time and it’s like, boom, they got it. And I used it. And it was such a big question mark for me. It was almost hard for me to fully grasp what I was experiencing. And it took the idea of hearing that problem statement from our customers, it took using the VR devices a few times to actually start to say, wait, I think we can do this. And then when were able to use a very little amount of funding to take the first industrial asset and bring it into the VR environment, and when we walked that asset down, it was like, oh, this is it. This is going to do it. Because before that I was playing video games and you’re like, yeah, okay, video games are really neat. But then when we brought our industry’s content into it, very small, like something the size of a room when we brought it in, then it was, oh, we’re onto something here. 

Brett
How do you deal with, I don’t know what they call it exactly, but VR sickness. I bought a VR headset about a year ago and I put it on. I was like, this is so cool, this is so fun. 

Brian Lozes
And then I literally like four minutes. 

Brett
Later, I was like, the sickest I’ve ever been and I haven’t been on since then. Is that an issue that you deal with? And if so, how are you dealing with that? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah, it’s been an issue from the get go. And so there are a lot of industry standard ways of reducing the possibility of sickness in the environment. So first, I think the best way to use it is tactically, and that’s 10, 20, 30 minutes at a time. I don’t see our product being the kind of thing where you put the VR deer on at 09:00 A.m and you jump out at 05:00 P.m.. We’re using it as a tool to do certain things. But second, we have continued to bring features into a product like the way you move in that environment or the way you move from location to location. That reduces the possibility of VR sickness. And then we also see that people that as they use it, that tendency toward VR sickness goes away. But some folks ultimately may struggle with it. And that’s why we’ve also built a PC mode, which is mountain board based to supplement too. 

Brett
That makes a lot of sense. Now is there a specific case study or customer success story that you could talk us through just to highlight what it really looks like in action when a customer is using it? 

Brian Lozes
Well, there’s so many, and I’ll take the one that just happened about a week ago. We’ve got one and we’re going to make a case study on this one to put out on the Internet. I won’t release the company name yet, but they’re a big one, everybody knows it. And they have a heavy industrial facility that’s remote. And it was remote from the headquarters and it also had involvement from third party vendors and our team. So you had people at the facility, people in the headquarters, people with the vendor in other parts of the country, and then our folks all participating. And in that case, we all got into the VR environment together, all representatives, avatars, and they conducted a planning exercise for his facility. And the old way would have been, hey everybody, probably 1520 people, let’s jump on helicopters and let’s fly out to the site. 

Brian Lozes
And you’re going to be there for multiple days to conduct a couple of hours with work. And that’s a huge expense. Just the idea of flying people out to that asset, much less a logistical nightmare, getting them all together. Well, again, a week ago, everybody just jumped in a meeting. They were all represented in the space as though they were at that site, knocked out the scope of work in a couple of hours. And they said that they not only fully recovered the value of that contract, they started bringing additional savings into their organization in one meeting, that would be 1 hour, two hour session done. They’re like we’re done for the year. And that was such a neat thing and we’re seeing more and more of that as we progress. 

Brett
Wow, that’s incredible. Now talk to me about market categories. So in the intro there, I labeled it an industrial immersive experience platform. But how do you define yourselves and how do you think about that market category that you’re in? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah, I think that the market category using immersive technology is still rolling out into the world, moving along. But I think we are bringing a new market category into the industrial space. Because when we think of immersive technology, it’s often thought of about you hear headlines with meta, trying to bring the metaverse to everybody at home. Well, we look at our product as a tool to help reduce the need to go out in the field, the need to go to that point of interest. And there’s no other group that has that is doing that. Because the old way was, well, let’s just spend the money and go there. 

Brett
That take a note of sense. Now, I’m sure you’ve experienced a couple of challenges as you brought this to market. If we had to pick one challenge that you faced and overcame, what would that challenge be and how’d you overcome it? 

Brian Lozes
That’s a good one. I may cheat here and do two if you don’t get in trouble. So, big challenge here. Vre is quite new. It’s new to a number of folks. And when were first bringing this possibility to customers, it was such a leap from more or less using nothing or using a monitor based experience to wearing the headset. So what we had to do was to create a bridge. And that bridge is what we call our mouse and keyboard or PC mode. So a lot of the features, like the ability to create work packages and annotate and join in on multi user meetings, all those features existed, exist in a mouse and keyboard version. So folks with a standard enterprise computer can join in on the value proposition. But then some people also would use the VR gear. And those people tended to be a little more tech forward. 

Brian Lozes
Maybe perhaps at times they might have even already had the VR gear. And so that combination was useful in helping to create a bridge between the old way of let’s just go out there and jumping all the way into VR here. So we found that to be a very necessary step. But the second element of an evolution of this product, we always thought that our core value proposition was going to be around how do you see a design and pick up the flaws in that design before it’s constructed? Well, we had a hunch that people also wanted to see the site as it existed. If the world out there is following, there’s this whole category called reality capture. You have drones that are flying environments, laser scanners that are capturing. So we set out, and we’re the world’s first to actually incorporate the footage from drones and laser scanning gear. 

Brian Lozes
So you can take any site as it exists right now and bring it into that space. And it turns out that’s a hugely valuable element for our customers and very unique for our product, in that our customers around the world can visit their site as you would see it, not just as a computer. Model and they can derive value not just from the design of projects. But how do you maintain that site and how do you train people to operate in that facility? It opens up the ability to make this applicable to people beyond just new capital projects. 

Brett
Makes a lot of sense. Now, last question for you. Let’s zoom out three to five years from today. What’s the company look like? What’s the impact look like on the industry and your customers? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah, three to five years from now, we want to be in every worker’s hands and attributable to a vast reduction in the amount of time people are spending in dangerous environments so they can make their decisions while they’re away from it. And I can’t give away too many details on this right now, but we’re investing deeply in our product to increase the scalability to enable that, the readiness to enable that, and then to widen the value proposition so that makes sense so everybody will use it. And so for those following us, we’ve got some big announcements on the technology front this year that are really milestone moments for us to open ourselves up to that goal being in everyone’s hands. 

Brett
Nice. That’s amazing. That’s smart. Now you have to come back on and tell us about those details later on. 

Brian Lozes
Brian, what’s the matter? Strategy? 

Brett
Yeah, Brian, unfortunately, we’re up on time, so we’re going to have to wrap here. If people want to follow along with your journey as you continue to build, where’s the best place for them to go? 

Brian Lozes
Yeah, we’re very active on LinkedIn and of course, our website as well. Those are two great places. 

Brett
Awesome. Brian, thank you so much for taking the time to chat, share your story, and talk about this vision. This is such exciting technology and such a cool company and really appreciate you taking the time. 

Brian Lozes
Thank you, Brett. Appreciate the time. 

Brett
All right, keep in touch.