The following interview is a conversation we had with Dane Baker, CEO of EcoCart, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: $17.5 Million Raised to Power the Future of Sustainable Commerce
Dane Baker
Thank you.
Brett
Hey, everyone, and thanks for listening. Today I’m speaking with Dane Baker, CEO and Co-Founder of Ecocart, a sustainable commerce platform that’s raised 17.5 million in funding. Dane, thanks for chatting with me today.
Dane Baker
Bret, excited to be here.
Brett
So, to kick things off, could we just start with a quick summary of who you are and maybe a bit more about your background?
Dane Baker
Yeah, happy to. So let’s see. I’m a multi time bounder. I have started a couple of companies that have all had a similar thread of trying to make the world a better place in some way, shape, or form. And the last company that I started was an online peer to peer rental marketplace business. So think like Airbnb, but for surfboards, kayaks, snowboards, et cetera, and started that business. The general hypothesis was, know we could limit consumption in the world by amplifying the sharing economy, especially with high plastic items, and that would better for the world around us. And as we scaled, however, it became very difficult and quite expensive to maintain that sustainability ethos as a company. We tried everything, try to buy offsets, hire consultants. It’s very complicated and it was very expensive. So we realized there had to be a better way.
Dane Baker
And we sold toy room was the name of the company and started Ecocart based off of this idea and takes us today, where our mission at Ecocart is to make the fight against climate change easy, affordable, and accessible so that everyone can do their part.
Brett
And where did that drive come from for you to want to make the world a cleaner place?
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Dane Baker
So it’s kind of two things. One is I’ve always loved entrepreneurship, and because I’ve always thought about it as the work that I’m doing as an entrepreneur is amplified, it’s magnified by way of the people that join our mission, or just like, the ability to scale quickly. There’s just so much potential for an amplification of whatever you’re working on.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And so that coupled with the idea that if that is the case, you might as well be doing something you care about that you feel really good about. And that’s where kind of trying to make the world a better place comes into play. And so, again, all of the businesses that I’ve built in the past have all had that general thread, right? And they haven’t always been specifically sustainability companies, but the last two certainly have had that ethos as part of the business. And it’s been an amazing thing, honestly, to be able to wake up every day and work towards a personal mission of mine. And it makes things, because times get tough. It helps, really, to push through.
Brett
Were you happy with the exit of toy room?
Dane Baker
Yeah, I mean, it was an incredible learning experience. It was something that were able to take all of the learnings from building that business, all the fortitude, and just need to run through walls and taking it directly into building this business. So it was certainly worthwhile.
Brett
Did you start Ecocar with a chip on your shoulder because of the last company, not maybe getting as big and massive as you wanted it? And the only reason I’d ask that is because I’ve had a lot of other founders who’ve had similar experiences where they start a company, they end up selling it a couple of years later. But they say they had this big vision, it didn’t get fulfilled, and they go and launch their new company and they have a chip on their shoulder and they’re very fired up to make this the big company. Was that the dynamic for you?
Dane Baker
Yeah, it certainly could have played a part. I think chips on shoulders drive right people in different ways.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And maybe I have a little bit of that internally, but I think in general, when you’re working on something so meaningful, it’s hard not to be incredibly driven towards that goal.
Brett
A few other questions we like to.
Brett
Ask, and the goal here is really just to better understand what makes you tick as a Founder. First one, what Founder do you admire the most, and what do you admire about them?
Dane Baker
I’d say Sir Richard Branson. And I think the reason for that is he’s a unique individual that’s just very much in a class of his own.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
Like, you look, know, sort of traditional multi time, multi home run founders. And it’s rare to find someone like Richard Branson because he leads with his heart. He’s an incredibly emotive individual. Whereas in stark contrast to someone like Elon, who’s just incredibly cerebral, someone like Richard Branson has built an empire based off of making people feel a certain way about experiencing his businesses in whatever vehicle or medium that might come. But they’ve all had that experiential, make people feel something tint to it that has made virgin what it is. And it’s also really rare to have such consistency in that from business to business. And so it’s incredibly inspiring because he just clearly lives that, and it’s just so important to him in his playbook.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And then you couple that with his personality type, the type of person that he is. He’s fun loving, he’s light hearted. He’s also, again, emotive and cares about people and things and stands for important topics. And overall, he’s just a very inspirational individual to me.
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Brett
What I really like about him is it’s very clear that he’s having fun. When you watch interviews of him. And that’s not just like recent. The retired guy, if you go back even like 30 years or 40 years, he had the same mindset. He was always having fun. And I think if you look at Zuckerberg or Musk or any of these guys, you don’t look at their interviews and think, wow, that guy has a fun life. He’s really just enjoying this. They seem like they’re getting something out of it, obviously, but I wouldn’t say that it’s fun by any means.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
I think.
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Dane Baker
And that’s incredibly important.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
Because life is multifaceted, life is comprehensive. It’s not just one thing. And he brings a human element to the work that he does.
Brett
Yeah, totally agree. What about books and the way we like to frame this? We got this from Ryan Holiday. He calls them quake books. So a quake book is a book that brocks you to your core. It really influences how you think about.
Dane Baker
The world and how you approach life.
Brett
Do any quake books come to.
Dane Baker
Ooh, good one.
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Dane Baker
A lot have influenced me in different think, you know, now that we’re in the kind of phase that we’re in as a business, a book that is currently resonating for the phase that we’re, you know, that’s relevant to me is a book called amp it up by Frank Slutman, who is the CEO of Snowflake. And it just talks about how to scale.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
It’s very much not for. There are certain books for different phases, like the lean startup.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
That’s for super early zero to one phase. But amp it up is just relevant for where we are right now, which is in the scale phase. And so it has some really incredible lessons as a CEO of a series, a phase company right now.
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Brett
I recently read amp it up as well. And I think what’s most interesting about that book, to me at least, is the fact that it’s an operator who’s operating this big, massive company today, and he’s writing it as he’s an operator. I feel like a lot of those books that’s kind of 20 years out or ten years out reflecting on the journey, but it’s not someone who’s in the day to day, and Frank is very much in the day to day at Snowflake. So it’s a pretty fascinating perspective, I think, just to read it from.
Dane Baker
I completely agree with you.
Brett
Now, let’s switch gears and let’s dive deeper into the company. So let’s just start with the problem. I think for you, the problem is probably a little bit easier to articulate than when we bring someone on who’s selling Dev tools or cybersecurity tools. But let’s start there. What is the problem that you’re solving?
Dane Baker
Yeah, the problem that we’re solving is, for businesses, it’s incredibly complicated and expensive to take steps towards operating sustainably. If there’s any interest for the company to operate sustainably, and there’s a lot of reasons to do so, there’s not an easy way to do it.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
So we are simplifying that process. We’re making that just relevant for business growth, which is directly aligned with all companies and can be relevant for all companies. And really, that’s the value for.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
For our customers, which are e commerce, retailers and brands, it is helping them tell their sustainability story in a way that drives customer loyalty and love.
Brett
And to visualize what that looks like, let’s just imagine that I’m an e commerce brand. I come to you and say, dane, I’m serious about sustainability. I want to get more into it. What do we do? How do we work with you?
Dane Baker
Yeah, so, I mean, it’s kind of two parts to that.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
One is, from a partnership perspective, we want to understand all of your sustainability goals and create a path for you to accomplish those. That’s sort of the partnership side.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
The other is the product and the integration and the sort of details, the operational details. And that is something that we have packaged in a way that’s incredibly straightforward for our partners. We have a shopify app and an API that plug directly into the tech stats of the partner we’re talking with and who wants to take steps towards operating sustainably. And with that integration, it becomes quite straightforward and simple and can be done inside of a week. And so that’s really important to us. Is how can we make the process as seamless as possible so that our partners can start to see the value.
Brett
In terms of those calculations. How complex is it, and how far up the supply chain does that go? Does that go to the parts being created and then they’re being shipped to a factory, and then they’re being assembled? How far up does that go?
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Dane Baker
So our scope of what we’re calculating is both manufacturing emissions and shipping emissions. And in some cases, it’s possible that we are also calculating and offsetting the entirety of the emissions from cradle to grave. And some of our partners ask us to do this. So it’s very dependent on the partnership, but as a standard, as I mentioned, it’s the manufacturing emissions and the shipping emissions, and it’s also something we tailor to the partnership. So that’s how we approach that problem.
Brett
And is it ever hard to get that data if it’s coming out of, let’s say, China or India or somewhere where they’re doing mass manufacturing? I’ve had some companies on that talk about some of those problems of getting that type of visibility. Do you ever have that?
Dane Baker
Yeah, it certainly is a problem.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
It certainly is a challenge. We have to take into account many different factors when we’re estimating the emissions of that order.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And so we have kind of an approach where we understand the sort of base level emissions in kind of what we call, like, a base case. And then there are all different types of adjustments that could be made to that base case assumption. And that’s sort of how we strike the balance between doing this on a one by one basis and being able to do this in scale. And so that’s kind of key to our specific process, is we’re able to strike that balance quite well.
Brett
And just so we can visualize this from a consumer perspective, what does it look like from a consumer perspective? So let’s say I go on the ecommerce brand’s website. I select items, put in a cart. When do I start to see Ecocart?
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Dane Baker
So we have what we call, like, a suite of features that merchants can actually decorate their shopping experience with. So I’d say the ideal state would be as a shopper arrives at a website, they first on the homepage see some messaging about that brand sustainability initiatives, and they start to internalize that. They then continue on their shopping journey, go onto the inventory page, they start to look at all what they sell, and they click into a product. They look at the product detail page, and there they see further information about that specific product, maybe some information about the emissions or the materials, and we again help craft this message and process.
Dane Baker
And then they go to their checkout page where they then are able to take action after having been primed with a few different touch points describing that brand sustainability initiatives, the consumer then at the point of sale is able to take climate action. And during that experience, with their sort of checkout checkbox, they are able to then see all the information about the specific project that the brand has selected and the certifications and information and details behind that project, as well as how we have gone about estimating that emissions that orders carbon emissions. And so with all of that, we’ve created a really optimal user experience or consumer experience as they’re going through and shopping during their normal day to day lives.
Brett
And what’s the impact look like from a brand perspective? If we’re looking at money, what’s the financial impact? If they are using Ecocart, what types of impact are they seeing in terms of checkout or cart abandonment? Different things like that?
Dane Baker
Yeah, of course. So the kind of value prop for our brands really is kind of the reason why we have so much demand. I mean, we’ve gone from zero brands when we launched to over 2000 in just a matter of four years, maybe even a little bit less than four years, actually. We believe what we’re building is becoming ubiquitous and standard in the ecommerce landscape. And that in five years from now, looking forward, you and I, as consumers, won’t be able to go through a checkout experience and not have an option to make our purchase carbon neutral. So we feel like this is becoming standard and ubiquitous and the reason for that and why brands use us today.
Dane Baker
We are helping them tell their sustainability story in a way that drives customer loyalty and love and that directly influences key metrics for them, like carp conversion and like repeat purchase rates, which then, of course, impacts their LTV of their consumers and so many other incredible business benefits to. This is really the value prop and.
Brett
The impact that brands see from a brand perspective. What’s like your sweet spot right now in terms of Persona? Is it like the big established brands? Is it the disruptor g to c brands who are coming in and shaking up the market? Who’s that sweet spot for you?
Dane Baker
So our brands are, they vary far and wide. They come in all different shapes and sizes. I’d say we have some categorical hotspots or vertical hotspots, like in fashion and apparel and CPG, as well as beauty and cosmetics.
Dane Baker
Right?
Dane Baker
And even categories like baby and categories like outdoor, those are some of our sort of categorical hotspots. But again, Ecocart is very mass market. It’s valuable for brands and retailers of all different shapes and sizes.
Brett
This show is brought to you by.
Brett
Front Lines Media, a podcast production studio that.
Brett
Helps B2B founders launch, manage.
Brett
And grow their own podcast. Now, if you’re a Founder, you may be thinking, I don’t have time to host a podcast.
Brett
I’ve got a company to build.
Brett
Well, that’s exactly what we’ve built our service to do. You show up and host and we handle literally everything else. To set up a call to discuss launching your own podcast, visit frontlines.io slash podcast. Now back today’s episode. From a messaging perspective, is that ever know trying to speak to those two very different types of brands? Like I see cuts on there, then I also see Walmart. Is that a totally different message or is that the same message that you’re.
Dane Baker
Pushing to these know, the beautiful thing about what we’re doing is that the message is the same because the value proposition is the same. And it’s just incredibly clear that this type of solution in the space is needed and that we have a tool that helps them accomplish that in a very straightforward, easy to use and user friendly way.
Brett
And if they aren’t using Ecocart, what are they using?
Dane Baker
First and foremost, a lot of the work that we do is education.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
We are creating a category. We are educating our potential partners on the importance of doing this work and also what this work means.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
It’s quite complex under the hood, and not a lot of retailers and brands have the time or resources to fully get a grip on it, fully get a grasp on what all of this means. And so that’s where we come in and help them.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And so we’re doing a lot of education. So back to your question. There’s not a lot of work being done specifically in this vertical elsewhere, right? I mean, some brands, some retailers are purchasing offsets themselves.
Dane Baker
Right?
Dane Baker
That’s perhaps one element of this. It’s a very sort of minority, frankly. And some folks, some retailers and brands have internal teams that are staffed up to specifically work on this, both in the measurement and the offsetting components.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
However, again, that’s also a minority. So I say the alternative to what we do really is nothing in this space. It’s really just getting started with sustainability or not yet doing anything at all.
Brett
What’s the category going to be called? In the intro, I called you a sustainable commerce platform, but I kind of just made that one up. What is the actual category?
Dane Baker
That’s quite apt. I’d say that’s a pretty good way of describing it. We like to call ourselves the sustainability ecommerce layer.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
There’s multiple layers of ecommerce, and there’s the platform itself. There’s all of the tech stack and tools. Then there’s a necessary critical element to it, which is the sustainability layer. And that’s really what we like to say. We are creating and optimizing for our partners.
Brett
From a marketing perspective, what’s working right now, and what have you done to rise above the noise and connect with these brands and achieve the type of growth that you’ve achieved?
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Dane Baker
A lot of our growth has come organically because we do a good job of telling that story in an authentic way that resonates.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And so what you find tactically is that most of our brands and partners come to us organically. And when I say that, what I mean is directly through search and searching in search engines, as well as directly into things like a Shopify App Store. And so that’s critical because it shows the sheer demand. And all we try to do is help to accelerate that and amplify that and be in that place of intent. And so that’s been our strategy in a lot of ways. And sure, we do a bit of sort of outbounding and sales work, but as in general rule of thumb, how we approach this is just being there at the point of intent and kind of helping spin that flywheel a little bit faster for all things organic that are happening.
Brett
As I mentioned there in the intro, you’ve raised 17.5 million to date. What have you learned about fundraising throughout that journey?
Dane Baker
Oh, wow. A lot. I hadn’t actually raised traditional venture capital before Ecocart, and it’s been a really interesting ride and journey.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
I think what a lot of people maybe don’t realize is that I think it’s really easy to assume that it is the right fit for every type of business. And it’s just now that we’re kind of in this post 2021 era and a lot of companies are shutting down and not able to raise their next round of capital, it’s really interesting to sort of view how that can be for a market.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And for us, again, we’re creating a category. We’re spinning that flywheel faster on something that’s happening and becoming standard and ubiquitous.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
So for us, the venture capital that we raised was critical to our growth.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
Because we’re in a market that is quickly becoming big in a way that just hasn’t happened or hasn’t been the case in prior years. So it’s just really interesting to sort of be in this market and looking around at the field and seeing that it really ultimately isn’t the right fit for all different types of companies. And it’s really important to understand the sort of do’s and don’ts of the venture market.
Brett
Yeah, it seems like going the venture route has become kind of glamorized over the last couple of years. Maybe that’s dying down a little bit now, but that used to be a lot of the conversations I had with other founders who they’d be going the non venture route, they’d have a company that’s making money, but they weren’t being featured in TechCrunch. No one was like celebrating them and giving them high fives. They were just building their business. And it seems like a lot of those founders got kind of pulled into launching venture backed startups, and I think a lot of them are struggling now a little bit and realizing that maybe it is better to go the other route. So I think it just completely depends on the Founder and the market and the product, of course, right?
Dane Baker
Yeah, exactly. It’s interesting how cycles, market cycles will teach a lot of lessons.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And I think that it’s kind of what we’re seeing. There’s a really interesting quote just for resonates as we think about this topic. I’ll probably butcher it, but it’s something to the effect of when the tide goes out, you see who’s swimming naked, and in the absence of that, everyone seems to be in the right place and as normal. But again, when the tide goes out, you see things that are completely out of place.
Brett
Let’s imagine you were starting the company again today from scratch. What would be the number one piece.
Dane Baker
Of advice that you’d give to yourself? That’s a great question. It’s probably similar to. I’ve been doing a lot of physical training as of recent, like cardio, and just trying to work out and exercise a lot more. And I think one of the things that I have realized during those times of enhanced stress on the body, or even strain on the body, is that it’s all a mental gain to get through that set or that mile, or whatever it may be. And I find that to be so similar and salient for building a business as well, and like running a company, because just like everything in life, it is such a mental game, and it’s a game of mental fortitude and managing your emotions and staying right in the middle. Right. Not letting the highs overwhelm you. Not letting the lows overwhelm you.
Dane Baker
Right.
Dane Baker
And I think that I was watching an interview recently and I saw, I forgot who it was. Some celebrity I believe was talking about this topic. And he said, you think you’re on top of the world. You think you’re the best in the world at that specific thing at the time. This too shall pass. If you think that you feel like you want to quit and it’s the worst thing in the world at the time, this too shall pass. And so I just find that to be such an important element to running a business, because it’s critical to stay Zen like, right. And not let your emotions take over and govern so much. So that’s what I would say.
Brett
I recently got into ultra running in the last year or so. I just did my first 50 plus mile race and I was talking to some friends about it. They’re like, dude, why are you doing this stuff? This is like insane. I was trying to explain that to them, how you just articulated that I’m building these mental models in my personal life and then those transfer over to my business life. And I do see a crossover with so many things that you have to go through. When I did this 50 miles race, the things that I had to work through in my head, the doubts, the negative conversations, the desire to quit, sometimes you have to just push through that and talk yourself through that and coach yourself through that. And I think that’s exactly what you’re doing in the business world as well.
Brett
So I’m a huge fan of that crossover. And that idea of building that mindset in your personal life completely transfers over into your business life as well.
Dane Baker
Agreed?
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Dane Baker
And it’s just like, as I’m sure it’s critical to stay balanced mentally as you’re running an ultra marathon, it’s likewise critical to stay balanced as you’re running a business.
Brett
Yes, totally agree. All right, final question. Now we’re almost up on time, let’s zoom out three to five years into the future. What’s the big picture vision that you’re building?
Dane Baker
Yeah, we’re in a really fortunate position to be leading a movement. And I think that movement for us is helping the world understand that commerce can be a force for good. And that manifests for us as consumers being able to take climate action with every purchase they make. And again, I feel strongly that war building is becoming ubiquitous and standard in the ecommerce landscape. And that looking forward five years, we won’t be able to go through a checkout experience and not have an option to make our purchases carbon neutral. So thinking about it in that context and fashion, it’s a really incredible time to be doing what we’re doing leading this movement.
Dane Baker
I like to say we’re in this golden era between sustainability being a sort of nice to have solution to an absolutely must have, and we’re kind of in this mode in between those right now, and it’s such a great place to be leading this movement.
Brett
Amazing. I love the vision. I love the approach that you’re taking. And this has been a really fun conversation. We are up on time, so we’ll have to wrap here. Before we do, if any founders listening in just want to follow along with your journey as you build and execute on this vision. Where should they go?
Dane Baker
Oh, wow.
Dane Baker
Yeah.
Dane Baker
Let’s see. I’m pretty active, I would say, on LinkedIn, and so that’s probably the best place to find me. I’m not so much active on Twitter other than being just a consumer there, so I’m more active on LinkedIn.
Dane Baker
Amazing.
Brett
Dan, thanks so much for taking the time. Really enjoyed this.
Dane Baker
Yeah, thank you so much, Bret.
Brett
All right, keep in touch.
Brett
This episode of Category Visionaries is brought to you by Front Lines Media, Silicon Valley’s leading podcast production studio. If you’re a B2B Founder looking for help launching and growing your own podcast, visit frontlines.io podcast. And for the latest episode, search for Category visionaries on your podcast platform of choice. Thanks for listening, and we’ll catch you on the next episode.
Twitter
facebook
linkedin