The following interview is a conversation we had with Jonas Rinde, CEO of Nomono, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: $15 million Raised to Power the Future of Podcasting.
Jonas Rinde
Hi, Brett. Nice to be here as well. Yeah.
Brett
So let’s begin with a quick summary of who you are and a bit more about your background, right?
Jonas Rinde
Absolutely. So, yeah, probably can read the most of the LinkedIn profile, but I have around 20 years of experience from the tech industry. I’m born Swedish, living in Norway, and kind of heavily focusing on product design over the years and then moved on to different responsibility roles. Now for the last year, being Co-Founder and CEO in different startups. I’m a big fan of tech, but mostly fan of tech in terms of solving some true problems for the end user.
Brett
And can you provide a high level overview of what the tech ecosystem is like today in Norway?
Jonas Rinde
Today is really good. Being Swedish in Norway, there’s a difference there. In Sweden. Pretty big on B to Consumer. Norway, on the other hand, is very good on B to B, business to business solutions, and especially the tech space. There’s a lot of research going on in Norway, and through my experience being here for many years now, norway is very heavy on singular processing and everything around it. So you can see in my resume, but it goes to the other companies coming. Built out of Norway. If they’re not inside ocean gas or pro tech, they are usually into audio and video, which is related to signal processing. So there’s a lot of skills on that side here. Amazing.
Brett
And two questions we like to ask just to better understand what makes you tick as an entrepreneur and as an executive, is there a specific CEO that you admire the most? And if so, who is it and what have you learned from studying them?
Jonas Rinde
Yeah, I think I will kind of bore you with the classic gas today. It’s got to be Steve Jobs following for many years, being almost an old guy now, close to 46 years and old, I’ve been kind of growing up with computers and following how computers involved, how computers combined with user experience involved. I mean, over the years, having being also a Mac user very early on, it’s pretty hard not to kind of be inspired by Steve Jobs. And I still use a lot of his old keynotes as inspiration for building companies but also importantly, the storytelling part, which is well needed competence when you’re a Founder of startup as well.
Brett
Yeah, I was writing an article the other day about category creation and I ended up watching his keynote when he announced the iPad and it was just so incredible to watch. He’s such a master.
Jonas Rinde
Yeah, I totally agree. Totally.
Brett
And what about books? You can’t say the Steve Jobs book here, so we have to go outside of that. But is there a specific book that’s had a major impact on you as a Founder? This can be business or it could just be a personal book that’s really influenced how you view the world.
Jonas Rinde
Yeah, I got to bring it way back in time when I was doing university studies and kind of started to industrial product design and there was a book called The Design of Everyday Things. That book really kind of helped to capture and put words on the frustration I felt over the years of things not working as you proceed, or would you talk about the human error? So in that book you get a lot of good tips and references to how to design things for everyday use, which is something I continually using today as the main focus on bringing value to the end user, to the customer. Amazing.
Brett
Also check that one out. Now let’s switch gears here a bit and let’s talk about the origin story behind Pneumono and a high level overview of what the company does.
Jonas Rinde
Yeah, so the origin of the story is like we’ve been building Pneumono now for four years. It started out that a former colleague of mine that I hired back in the days in Tanbrook for university called Aldun. He is like for my 20 years, it’s like a top five in the world on microphone and microphone array technology. He’s been researching in a research institution called Syntax in Norway for almost three years on how to capture spatial audio. That means capture audio in the way we hear it. So getting to true life kind of audio experience. And he foresees some macro trends in terms of XR, so VR and AR and 360 video. At the time, though, when he started researching, there was no boom around it. And when we started the company four years ago, we didn’t have iPhone air pods with spatial order compility.
Jonas Rinde
There was also no set standard either. But at least in the starting point we foresee, it has to take off at a certain time. So we together with another Co-Founder, Sigurd Sauer, who’s very heavy experience in software. We got going almost four years ago with Pneumono and it started a bit differently to the other companies I built. So we started with some deep tech and patterns around that deep tech and kind of looked into where to bring the most value. And not to make this story very long, but we found out that one thing is spatial Audio. But the starting point where we saw the most value for the technology was in just kind of general audio capture. The whole workflow there because we realize it hasn’t happened much over maybe the last 20 years, where in other technology industry like the smartphones, and even in video and footage, there’s a lot of development, especially on making things smart.
Jonas Rinde
So we kind of envision a way of doing smart microphones, so not only capturing audio in different frequency channels, but we also use technology will to capture metadata. And that’s something we kind of used to at the time with video and photo for audio. That’s something that hasn’t been kind of really developed. And now fast forward four years, you have those buttons, you have Spatially already being deployed on your iPhones and your iPads. Even Samsung and the Androids are coming. I think it was a note just that day that Google now also going to release true Spatial on their Android devices as well. So, I mean, we’re pretty happy to kind of see that the thinking we had four years ago is starting to play out. And on top of that, we’re looking at the fastest growing audio format and the way of consuming audio, and that is podcast.
Jonas Rinde
And in podcasts, we at least see the value is even more important for Spatial Audio because you don’t have any video content or anything else distracting you or giving you an experience. So with Spatial Audio, you can really immerse yourself into the story being told in a podcast. So we think at least that’s really where Spatial Audio has a powerful impact, especially most podcasts are today being listened through headphones. So you’re already kind of inside people’s head. And that gives a really good immersion with Spatial Audio and using the monos capture technology as well.
Brett
And could you define for us in simple terms what Spatial Audio is and how it works?
Jonas Rinde
Yeah. So in simple terms, Spatial Audio is a way to replicate audio the way we hear it in real life. And compared to, I think most people are used to dolby surround or surround audio. You get the audio from a 360, think of it as a pancake, it’s kind of around you. But with Spatially you kind of get the audio more like a glow, like a square. So you get audio in height as well, not only around you. And that for us humans as H*** sapiens kind of enlightens us to have a better audio experience. Because if you think of it today, I think all the audio listen to is still not kind of as impactful immersive as hearing audio in real life, walking in the forest, hearing the birds or dog barking. And it’s really hard to capture that. That’s the thing with the mono.
Jonas Rinde
We have solved that and we have sold as the first company in the world and we have also solved it with just one push of a button. And I think that goes back to the book I mentioned for you, designing everyday things. So that goes back to the thinking to have very advanced technology, but you have to make it so easy to use to get the adoption rate, but also to get our humans not scared about using the technology. But we could probably elaborate a little bit more on the thinking around that as well.
Brett
And how do you describe the company then? Are you a hardware microphone? Is it a hardware microphone and software company or how do you think about that?
Jonas Rinde
Yeah, I wouldn’t put us in this classic box of being a hardware or software company it’s kind of comparable to Apple is that a hardware company? Software company because they have also different revenue streams and different experience on the service. So I see ours more like we take on a workflow and whatever we need to solve that workflow. It could be hardware against software. And also keep in mind we started the company trying to avoid developing our own hardware because we have a lot of experience in doing that. We know the cost and the risk around it. But the challenge for us, we didn’t find any what we define as smart microphones so we didn’t find any solutions out there that were able to capture the metadata and the positioning of the audio that we wanted to be able to use our AI and do the spatial.
Jonas Rinde
So were kind of pushing ourselves into taking the risk and taking the bet on developing our own hardware to be able and now we see that is also our biggest advantage because there are different solutions today that you can use to enhance your audio. There are not so many, but there are a few solutions where you can probably collaborate around your media as well. But there is no solution that you can just by a push of one button capture station audio because if you take a look on the web and search net, you almost need a truck with gear cables, receivers, storage kits, and also people to set it up to be able to capture special audio. So I think what we have done is pretty awesome and it’s kind of visual comparable as well. I used to take this kind of old picture of, like, when you grew up, how the high speed equipment looked in your room with the speakers and the cables and you have all this rack with receivers and CDs.
Jonas Rinde
And what have you. And plus you have all your vinyl or CD disks and now you potentially have this sono speaker that is so easy. To set up grammar can do it. And you have an app and you have some streaming service where you have infinitive amount of music to it. I usually use that as the kind of a hook in the beginning of telling the story around the moon as well so we just bring up a photo. What you need equipment today to capture Spatial Audio. And that’s also the reason I think, why not so many people do it because it’s so hard and nobody has solved it. But on the consumer side, the big players are pushing for Spatial Audio. Mostly it’s music and video for now, but the big bottleneck for getting a big adoption of Spatial Audio is the solution we have.
Jonas Rinde
So that’s the capturing part of the Spatial Audio and that’s we think so motivating and thrilling with the mona that we kind of have sold it. So now for us, it’s the growth just to get our solution out in the hands on a global scale as fast as possible, to get people aware that there is an easy way to get this special order capture to do your door buttons, for example.
Brett
And is it targeting podcasts that are only done in person and interviews that are only done in person? Because I’m guessing you need to have everyone around the microphone or is it something that we could use in an interview like this if I had this microphone?
Jonas Rinde
That’s a good question. So again, shouldn’t read too much about our roadmap, but we started first with solving the complexity of the people in the room and the factors you have around that. That’s the first stab we do with our first product. But you got to keep in mind also we talk about order to the cloud here. So our device is synced to the cloud. So it’s kind of automatically buffering the files. And in the cloud you have all opportunities potentially, if we want to in the future also invite people. So we haven’t decided on it yet. We are taking our first product into the market now this year. So we’ll see what the feedback is. Back to your question there, see what the feedback is back from our consumers and customers on what do they need next. But you’re into something there. We see that there’s an opportunity with having a built in streaming or recording in our solution as well.
Jonas Rinde
So absolutely. But there’s other things as well. If I have no sound capsule and you have one as well, it’s pretty cool scenarios you can do with that over the cloud. We have developed these very small, high quality microphones. They are consisting of four of those in a sound capsule. But you can also foresee that they can also be sold as standalone microphones but still being connected to the mona solution. So, yeah, there’s a lot of thinking we have around that as well because we see, as you mentioned, this is of course a big trend there, that you not only have the chance to meet people face to face that you also have to do like we do today with this podcast. You meet over internet. So say and do a stream.
Brett
Yeah, one other thought that just came to mind that we do a lot. So we manage about 30 different podcasts for ourselves and for clients. And with basically all clients, we have them go to conferences and do recordings there at the actual event and at the conference. And the audio setup is always super difficult. It’s always a hassle. And that honestly always sounds like crap whenever we try to do those. So that’s probably a big part of the market too. Is the podcast that go on the road needing an easy kit that they can just bring with them and maintain that quality that they have at home?
Jonas Rinde
Yeah. If you look on the preorder list we have today and we’ll look into kind of who are the customers early on preordering this and this is kind of before you have any reviews from The Verge in New. York Times. And when we reach out to those preorders and kind of start to dig into what is the big interest? And I think you’re touching on there. This is the kit here that’s standardized, it’s easy to use, anybody can use it. So we have one of those agencies, they’re going to have like I think it’s around ten of these soundcapters on a shelf. So depending on who is going to run out on some customer event trade shows, they can just grab one of these and run out into the field and just press record and off you go and you capture them. High quality we define also as broadcast audio and ready to publish.
Jonas Rinde
And the cool thing is also assets is connected to the cloud. You don’t have to think about where to store the file or where are the files because you have a central place where you can go in and find the files after you have done your recording as well. And there in the cloud in pneumonia you can choose how much enhancement you want to do. As of today we have twelve different enhancement we do to the audio, so reducing noise and it’s cross talk reduction, denoising and what have you as well and that’s really powerful. So back to you also we have someone who can also plan to rent these out. So they are kind of building a business of having several discs and then a single podcaster might not be able to afford our first product. He or she can just rent it and run out in the field and it’s easy to use.
Jonas Rinde
So absolutely. Yeah, that’s something I was going to.
Brett
Ask you because I’ve had some other founders on here who are building venture backed podcast technology companies. And one of the issues they’ve said is that right now there are a lot of podcasts, but the mass majority of them have no money. They just don’t have money to spend and they’re not generating a lot of revenue from the podcast specifically. So is there a specific segment of the market that you’re going to focus on where they are generating revenue from the podcast or what’s your approach there in terms of navigating the market?
Jonas Rinde
Yeah, that’s a very good point. And that’s also why we kind of entering the professional market in the podcast industry first. And also that we’re also releasing our most high end product first as well, with the price point we have. And we see at least there’s a ton of those people and users and customers in the field. We’re targeting being everything from marketing agencies. You also have marketing departments in the bigger companies, you have large media houses. But they’re also I mean, as we define professionals as the one who make money or creating media or creating content. So they have this availability to pay. And also they have been probably doing some podcasts for some time. So they’re also very used to the pain. Similar to what you mentioned when you go into a trade show or you go into the field, how complicated it is.
Jonas Rinde
Although you are very skilled and experienced and you have potentially the latest of equipment, it’s still a hassle and as you know, you go out in the field and there’s so many factors you don’t have control over. So when you come back and listen to audio file, you have no chance to kind of go back and change it. And that also bit into the value of pneumonia that you have an opportunity to kind of, after the fact, adjust the audio, the placement of the people, the placement of the order. Do you want to have the background ambient or do you want to kind of decrease it a little bit or do you want to make it sound like you’re in a studio? And these are the kind of things you can do afterwards. And I think that’s what we see, at least with our earlier preorder customers, that’s really powerful.
Jonas Rinde
So back to one, yeah, professionals for us defined as the one who has been doing this for a while, but they can easily do the mathematics calculation here as well. So one thing is you save time, you save the stress level, but also in terms of you save money instead of being able to maybe rent a studio or using time or money with different applications. I just want to add that you also see an improvement in the quality of the dialogue, especially when you interview people because you can be in an environment where they are more relaxed and our technology or product is so easy to use. And the thing here is also it kind of fades away when you start using it and we have noticed that on interview and the dialogue with the people that you get the kind of more relaxed and natural dialogue going on.
Jonas Rinde
Maybe compare put like you missing here. It’s much better to have you in the same room but also not have a big membrane microphone hiding your face while we’re talking as well. So I think that’s some of the value and back again, we see a very good interest there for buying the product in that segment. However, though the big majority of podcasting today are people who has some interesting story to tell and ideas, they might not be that experience of technology or podcasting or audio for that matter. And also they are very low on budget. So for those people today we have our Nomono Cloud which is free to use. So you can use whatever microphone you have today. You will not get Spatial audio but you will be able to at least upload your files to our cloud and use our twelve enhancement AIS.
Jonas Rinde
And with this podcast we’re doing today, well you can just sign up for yourself and upload this and kind of play around for free. And I think that’s a pretty good help to the ones who are getting started with podcasts or have low with a budget. At least they will get some really good improvements on the audio quality. Just using our cloud solution makes sense.
Brett
And I’m guessing that’s also a great lead gen process for you where you bring them into the Pneumono ecosystem, get them familiar with your products and then when they are ready to upgrade to the expensive microphone, that because they trust you.
Jonas Rinde
I agree and I will call it microphone that we developed expensive. We’ll call it cheap because of the quality you get from it. We did comparable if you’re going to buy like four high quality love microphones and you’re going to buy a storage device and also we have a ambisonic built into our main cube there, so to say, and some batteries. If you summarize that, you’re getting very close to our prize above and then you have of course as we kind of pitch it, you also have to take into account to set these things up for every recording occasion, et cetera. But of course we are all aware of that. As of today, there’s not many podcasters who are recording in Spatial and the reason for that I think is because of the complexity and also that we early on the Spatial and that will be interesting for us to see as well.
Jonas Rinde
We see that some of the pile customers, the Spatial part is more important for the ambient audio round versus having the people in different locations when you’re interviewing. But you can also, I mean it’s so easy to kind of downgrade from Spatial to be neural, to surround to stereo in our solution as well. Makes sense.
Brett
And in terms of the price point, is it 3000, is that correct? That’s what I saw on a tech wrench article.
Jonas Rinde
Exactly. Yeah. $3,000 is the price for the Psalm capsule.
Brett
Yeah, it really doesn’t seem that expensive. Just looking at my own setup that we have for our podcast estimating probably two K. So I don’t know if I read the headline of ear wateringly expensive microphone. It doesn’t seem like it’s some crazy premium product here, premium price point. That goes back.
Jonas Rinde
We see from our preorders as well the customers we have there. As I mentioned, we kind of find this product a bit too good to be true for that price point because they know what they have already invest in equipment and they also know the hassle they have had over the years being not in the studio. And the cool thing with our solution is that you can make any room or any meeting room to be a studio, because you don’t have to think about room reverb or equal, what have you. So it’s becoming very powerful from that perspective as well. We have a few pilot customers that had all the equipment, that had the studios and been doing kind of podcasts for more than ten years and have very good business doing that. They saw a pretty big drop of using the existing equipment now with having the Pneumonia Song capsule.
Jonas Rinde
And for them, it’s the ease of use and the technology high. So sometimes it’s still in the studio and they still have the old membrane microphones and cables. But they rather use our product because as they notice on the people, the guests, they are more comfortable sitting in the sofa in the studio with our microphones than sitting in the chairs at table with this kind of common big podcast Mimera microphones.
Brett
Yeah. And I encourage everyone listening to go over to the Pneumono website and check it out because this thing looks cool. You guys did a very good job. I can see the inspiration from Steve Jobs. It’s a very cool looking product.
Jonas Rinde
Thank you very much.
Brett
And in terms of traction and adoption, I know you said you have the preorder phase right now. Are there any numbers that you can share that just demonstrate the traction that you’re seeing?
Jonas Rinde
I’m not going to read the preorders numbers right now, but I’m happy to talk about the people that we have on the waiting list. And those are the people are the first in place to get a preorder made from us. So we’re kind of moving controlled into the market. So we haven’t given all the people on the waiting list an opportunity yet to do a pre order. So we kind of do it in batches. And that’s for us also to get closer to the customers and also learn who they are to be able to address it correctly. But as of today, we have over 21,000 people on the waiting list. So for us, that’s a pretty huge number, at least for the first very complex product. And that’s also, from what we can kind of state that so far an unknown brand from Norway. Hopefully in three years from now we will probably be more known.
Jonas Rinde
So we’re pretty happy and proud with that traction of having so many potential eager customers on the waiting list, waiting for getting their opportunity to preorder. And then of course, as you know, it’s a classic. You will see how the conversion rate is, but I think it’s a pretty good starting point and that’s also before anybody have been able to review it in the press, in the big press as well. And that’s the next step for us to get some units in the hands of the big press so they can write some review product.
Brett
And it’s a dream position for you to be in, I’m guessing. Too right, because the journalists that you want to review the product are also the journalists that would potentially be buying the product or their bosses or the media company would be buying the product. So yeah, it’s a very smart product. It gets in the hands of journalists and those journalists, I’m sure, are going to love the product. Then they’ll write about it.
Jonas Rinde
Yeah. And then within the monoclo, they have this kind of troy and horse. Because for any at least physical face to face interview or podcast or meeting I had with the time capsule, you also have the easy way of kind of just sending them a link by mail after that session, where they can just click in and they kind of just jump straight into the monocloud. And the file that just was recorded a few seconds ago. So that is also kind of a good way of getting people into the pneumonia experience of thing. So yeah, absolutely. I have to be honest, I love to be in this podcast. In the media industry, there are so many talented people and they are so passionate. So there’s a lot of energy in those meetings and when you come with something like we have into those meetings, it’s so awesome to kind of get the feedback and energy that we are hit the nerve or something about reducing complexity, taking away the monotone and boring work.
Jonas Rinde
I’m not sure how much time you spend, but there are applications you can use. But at least we have a few of the pilot customers that do a 30 minutes podcast per week and they have a studio, so they meet people live there, but they usually spend like two to 3 hours for each of these episodes to kind of fix the audio. So with our solution plus the cloud, we save so much time and paying for them. And it’s really awesome to be in the pneumonia side of being able to help podcasters with that in an easy way.
Brett
Yeah, I can imagine and I feel like it’s such a sweet spot too, right? Podcasting is just booming now. I’m a big podcast listener and I have been for five or six years now and every week I feel like I find a new podcast. Now it’s at the point where it’s difficult for me to listen to all of the podcasts that I. Want to out there. I have to go longer and longer runs to find the time to listen to them. But there’s so much good content out there these days.
Jonas Rinde
That’s a cool thing with, I mean, the method that you add now to the podcast is kind of written in terms of who was the host, who was the guest, the host was the topic. And then you have some other transcribing solutions that transcribe the spoken word into text so you can make it more kind of searchable and then you have us as another step into nitty gritty in terms of the method that we capture. So the thinking here, hopefully pretty soon in terms of searchability for podcast, hopefully it will be at least our thinking it will hopefully be closed like you do with a Google search tool, but for podcasting. So potentially next time you’re in Amazon, Apple, podcast or Spotify, you have more accuracy when you search for some certain topics or words being mentioned in podcast or even location for that matter.
Brett
That’s something that’s really surprised me about the podcasting space, is just how awful the discovery is in the search. Is it’s so bad?
Jonas Rinde
It is, it’s really bad. And also when you have the RSS feed and what have you, but I still kind of missed a lot of notifications about new exciting podcasts and certain topics that might be of my interest or how stupid the streaming service is in knowing about me and my needs. They tried to show me some new episodes and podcasts, but for now it’s a way big difference there compared to other tools in terms of hitting the nerve potentially, what I might be interested in, and I think on the music level is a different level especially. I’m a big fan of Spotify, but also a big fan of the feature of Discover Weekly where every week they provide you with certain songs that they think will match your like or music. And they also add some extra that might be outside your kind of interest or scope of music.
Jonas Rinde
And for me now, I think that’s one of my biggest inspiration of the new music I listen to is what I get every Monday from Spotify on Scaffold Weekly. It would be awesome to get the similar things on podcast episodes.
Brett
Yeah, absolutely agree. I feel like as a suite, you probably have to love Spotify, right? That’s your hometown company.
Jonas Rinde
Yeah.
Brett
Have you watched the TV show about Spotify or the founding of Spotify?
Jonas Rinde
I have it on what you call it my watch list. But being a Co-Founder and in a rapid growing company at the moment, unfortunately I haven’t had the time yet to have a look. But yeah, it’s on my list.
Brett
Yeah, I just finished it, obviously in Swedish, so I hadn’t used the subtitles, but it was still pretty good. It took me like minutes of watching it to realize that I was like, why are their mouths moving so funny? And then it makes it.
Jonas Rinde
Awesome cool.
Brett
Yeah. Now, the last couple of questions here, I know we’re up on time, so bringing an innovative product to market, especially a hardware product, is not easy to do. So what would you say has been the greatest challenge you’ve had to overcome so far and how’d you overcome it?
Jonas Rinde
That’s a good timing for that question, being kind of through building a company for four years. And during those four years you had a Pandemic as a manager in 20 years in tech, I think the biggest challenge I ever experienced was kind of experienced over the four years, especially with the Pandemic and on so many new things happening and especially as you mentioned, hardware. And I think everybody knows about the component crisis and increasing components. So, I mean, all the calculations you did in the beginning of the build and material cost of the product, the margin levels, the price points and everything that you kind of pitch the company for investors, all this kind of change it during the Pandemic. And the cool thing for us was though, that we was not only doing a harbor product, the cool thing for us, we also have the pneumonia cloud.
Jonas Rinde
So there was a time there when we had kind of serious discussions with our board about if we’re not available to get a hold of components. Because at the time the big players were sourcing and buying all the components, raising the prices. And we small players suddenly started come to realize that we might not get a hold of the components we need. So how can we secure as a company that we still have a value going forward? I mean, if the worst would happen. And for us that was continue in parallel, investing even more money in the company and resources to also then build more on the pneumonia cloud solution. So at least we have some. Honestly, that’s been really challenging, but it’s been very learning. So I think if you look back on it, I would say it’s kind of an exclusive experience to have to be able to go through that and survive as a company and also be able to bring value out of something that’s been so challenging.
Jonas Rinde
So yes, we probably have spent more money in the company than planned, but on the other hand, we now have a harbor product running and we also have invested in the mouth. So if it wasn’t for the Panasonic, potentially we wouldn’t invest so much in the cloud solution as we have today. So that’s the flip side of that experience.
Brett
I’ve seen that with a lot of companies that I’ve spoken to and even with our own company where COVID presented some challenges. But it also did create some good if you had the right mindset as you were navigating it. I think a lot of good did come from the Pandemic overall.
Jonas Rinde
Yeah, I agree. And it’s a fantastic learning to be in through that, honestly.
Brett
Hopefully we never have to face it again, but in case there’s ever another pandemic, we’re all ready to go at least.
Jonas Rinde
Yeah, that’s for sure. So it’d be good training. Yeah.
Brett
All right, last question here for you. So let’s zoom out into the future. What would you say is the three year vision for the company?
Jonas Rinde
We foresee that any spoken audio being recorded has been touched with some part of the Pneumonia AI we’ve been training for many years. So we are now in the professional field, high end product targeting podcasting and targeting spoken and wearable. But there’s so many other applications for the AI we have been building that it can also be used on many other products that are being used for talking or recording. So that’s the aim for us to be in the future, three years from now.
Brett
Amazing. I love it. Well, unfortunately, we are up on time, so we’re going to have to wrap here before we do. If people want to follow along with your journey as you continue to build, and if they want to maybe join that preorder list, where’s the best place for them to go?
Jonas Rinde
The best place to go is the Pneumono’s homepage. And then it’s pneumono co amazing.
Brett
Jonas, thank you so much for taking the time to chat and talk about what you’re building. This is all super exciting. I can definitely see the market need here and really wish you the best of luck in executing on this vision.
Jonas Rinde
Thanks, Brett, and thanks for having me. It’s been a great time.
Brett
Yeah, no problem. Keep in touch.
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