Ready to launch your own podcast? Book a strategy call.
Frontlines.io | Where B2B Founders Talk GTM.
Strategic Communications Advisory For Visionary Founders
Conversation
Highlights
A bug crawled into a valve seeking warmth during a cold snap in January 2025. It died there, teaching XL Batteries a lesson no laboratory could provide: real-world deployment reveals challenges you can’t anticipate in controlled environments.
This happened on the day XL Batteries shipped their first commercial unit to Houston – a milestone four years in the making. The journey to this point offers critical lessons for deep tech founders about scaling hardware innovations.
In a recent episode of Category Visionaries, CEO Thomas Sisto shared insights from building a company that’s raised $20 million to tackle one of energy’s most pressing challenges: grid-scale storage.
The $4 Trillion Technical Problem
Most massive markets get solved quickly because the incentives are irresistible. But grid-scale energy storage remains an exception. As Thomas explains, “It’s an unsolved problem. It’s a $4 trillion market with a T… There are not a lot of markets that are that big because people solve those problems. It’s an unsolved problem because it’s a technical problem.”
This insight shaped XL Batteries’ entire approach. While many startups focus on business model innovation or supply chain optimization, XL Batteries recognized they needed to solve fundamental chemistry challenges first.
The breakthrough came during Thomas’s postdoctoral research at Columbia University. His team discovered organic molecules derived from oil and gas that could charge and discharge without degrading. This opened the possibility of batteries lasting 50+ years – a game-changer for utility-scale storage.
Don’t Reinvent the Wheel
Instead of developing entirely new battery architecture, XL Batteries made a crucial strategic decision: innovate within proven frameworks. “We haven’t invented a new mousetrap,” Thomas explains. “It’s an old mousetrap. The key for us is to just really drive cost out of it.”
They built on NASA’s flow battery design from the 1980s, which uses vanadium dissolved in sulfuric acid. XL Batteries replaced these expensive, corrosive materials with organic molecules in pH-neutral saltwater. This approach allowed them to leverage existing engineering while dramatically reducing costs.
This strategy extends beyond the core technology. When building their team, they recruited veterans who had scaled similar technologies. Their chief commercialization officer was the co-founder and CTO of A123 Systems, which had the largest battery IPO in 2009. They also brought in Pfizer’s executive vice president of global chemical manufacturing to apply pharma industry expertise to chemical production.
The Power of Field Data
The journey from laboratory to commercial deployment revealed a critical principle: field testing provides irreplaceable insights. “It’s nothing like field data,” Thomas emphasizes. “You learn so much from being in the field. It’s so different from a laboratory environment.”
This isn’t just about finding bugs in valves. It’s about understanding how your technology behaves in real-world conditions, dealing with unexpected environmental factors, and discovering maintenance challenges you couldn’t anticipate in the lab.
Marketing in Deep Tech
XL Batteries’ approach to marketing offers another valuable lesson. While many startups rush to build market presence, they’ve been deliberately patient. “We have not invested in marketing at this point,” Thomas notes. “We’re getting into sort of a stone’s throw offering commercial product.”
This restraint reflects a deep understanding of their market. Unlike consumer products where brand excitement can drive sales, utility infrastructure demands proven reliability and compelling economics. As Thomas explains, “Energy and electricity is hidden… you just want your lights to work and you don’t want to pay more than whatever it happens to be 15 cents per kilowatt hour.”
The Vision Ahead
XL Batteries aims to enable a fundamental transformation of energy infrastructure. Their technology can store energy for 12-100 hours, far exceeding lithium batteries’ eight-hour limit. This capability is crucial for managing intermittent renewable energy sources like solar and wind.
“Fundamentally we want to change the way society operates in the exact same way that oil and gas has changed the way society operates,” Thomas shares. It’s an audacious vision, but one grounded in solving real technical challenges rather than just painting an attractive future.
The Path Forward
As XL Batteries moves from successful demonstration to commercial scaling, their journey offers valuable insights for deep tech founders:
- Focus on solving technical problems when they’re truly the barrier to market adoption
- Build on proven architectures instead of reinventing everything
- Recruit team members who have scaled similar technologies
- Let field data drive development
- Time market education based on product readiness, not market hype
These principles have helped XL Batteries progress from a laboratory discovery to shipping their first commercial unit. The next chapter of their story – scaling to utility-grade deployment – will test these principles in new ways.
Actionable
Takeaways
Build an elite technical team early:
Thomas emphasized the importance of bringing in experienced leaders from successful companies in adjacent spaces. He recruited the co-founder/CTO of A123 Systems (largest battery IPO of 2009) as chief commercialization officer and executives from Pfizer and Plug Power. This mix of startup scaling experience and deep technical expertise helped them avoid costly mistakes and technical debt.
Start with proven architectures:
Rather than inventing entirely new systems, XL Batteries focused on innovating within established frameworks. They used the proven flow battery architecture but replaced expensive vanadium/sulfuric acid with organic molecules in saltwater. Thomas explained, "We haven't invented a new mousetrap. It's an old mousetrap. The key for us is to just really drive cost out of it."
Focus relentlessly on cost in utility markets:
Thomas highlighted that unlike consumer products where premium pricing can work, utility products must prioritize cost and reliability above all else. "Energy and electricity is hidden... you just want your lights to work and you don't want to pay more than 15 cents per kilowatt hour." This drives every product design decision.
Leverage existing industry infrastructure:
By using organic molecules from oil and gas feedstocks, XL Batteries tapped into established supply chains and manufacturing capabilities. This reduced scaling risk compared to approaches requiring entirely new manufacturing processes or rare materials.
Time market entry carefully:
Despite having revolutionary technology, XL Batteries waited until they had a fully integrated demonstration unit before pursuing major marketing efforts. Thomas noted they're only now approaching the "tipping point" for marketing as they near commercial product availability.
Recommended Founder
Interviews
Sandeep Ahuja
CEO of Covetool
Sandeep Ahuja, CEO of Covetool: $36 Million Raised to Power the Future of Building Design with AI
John Belizaire
CEO of Soluna
John Belizaire, CEO of Soluna: $180 Million Raised to Power the Future of Renewable Computing for AI
Kameale Terry
Co-Founder and CEO of ChargerHelp!
Kameale Terry, Co-Founder and CEO of ChargerHelp!: Over $20 Million Raised to Build the Future of Electric Vehicle Infrastructure
Allison Wolff
CEO of Vibrant Planet
Allison Wolff, CEO at Vibrant Planet: $34 Million Raised to Build the Future of Land Management Restoration
Greg Newbloom
CEO and Founder of Membrion
Greg Newbloom, CEO & Founder of Membrion: $23 Million Raised to Build the Future of Industrial Wastewater Treatment Solutions
Ben Christensen
CEO of Cambium Carbon
Ben Christensen, CEO of Cambium Carbon: $5.5 Million Raised to Build a new Category of Sustainable Wood
Francesco Volpe
Founder of Renaissance Fusion
Francesco Volpe, Founder of Renaissance Fusion: $30M Raised to Build the Future of Nuclear Fusion Technology
Gary Lewis
CEO & Co-Founder of Resourcify
Gary Lewis, CEO & Co-Founder of Resourcify: $15 Million Raised to Build the Future of Recycling Management
Ali Javidan
Co-Founder of Range Energy
Ali Javidan, Co-Founder of Range Energy: $9 Million Raised to Build the Future of Electric Semi-Trucks
Antoine Welter
CEO and Co-Founder of Circu Li-ion
Antoine Welter, CEO & Co-Founder of Circu Li-ion: $8.5 Million Raised to Build the Future of Battery Upcycling
Joshua Riedy
CEO and Founder of Thread
Joshua Riedy, CEO and Founder of Thread: $20 Million Raised to Power the Future of Energy Grid Maintenance
Liz Gilligan
CEO & Founder of Material Evolution
Liz Gilligan, CEO & Founder of Material Evolution: $19 Million Raised to Build the Future of Sustainable Cement
Greg Fallon
CEO of Geminus
Greg Fallon, CEO of Geminus: $12 Million Raised to Help the Industrial Sector Prepare for the Energy Transition
Martin Kosak
Head of Marketing of Sensoneo
Event Marketing Mastery: Martin Kosak on Sensoneo’s Success at Trade Shows
Daniel Betts
CEO & Co-Founder of Blue Frontier
Daniel Betts, CEO of Blue Frontier: $47.8M Raised to Revolutionize Air Conditioning with Energy-Storing Smart Climate Technology
Astrid Atkinson
CEO & Co-Founder of Camus Energy
Astrid Atkinson, CEO of Camus Energy: $20 Million Raised to Build the Future of Grid Management
Kaitlyn Albertoli
CEO and Co-Founder of Buzz Solutions
Kaitlyn Albertoli, CEO and Co-Founder of Buzz Solutions: Nearly $6 Million Raised to Build the Future of Infrastructure Inspection
Manik Suri
Manik Suri, CEO and Founder of Therma: $30 Million Raised to Build the Cooling Intelligence Category
Curtis VanWalleghem
Co-Founder & CEO, Board Member of Hydrostor
Curtis VanWalleghem, CEO of Hydrostor: $322 Million Raised to Build the Future of Energy Storage
Michael Belenkie
CEO and President of Entropy
Michael Belenkie, CEO and President of Entropy: $300 Million Raised to Spearhead Efficiency and Innovation in the Carbon Capture Economy
Khaled Hassounah
CEO & Founder of Ample
Khaled Hassounah, CEO and Founder of Ample: $290M Raised to Build the Future of EV Batteries
Steff Gerhart
Co-Founder & Co-CEO of ecoLocked
Steff Gerhart, Co-Founder & Co-CEO of ecoLocked: $6 Million Raised to Transform Buildings into Carbon Sinks
Doron Myersdorf
CEO & Co-Founder of StoreDot
Doron Myersdorf, CEO & Co-Founder of StoreDot : $200 Million Raised to Power the Future of Electric Vehicles
Tim Weiss
CEO and Co-Founder of Optera
Tim Weiss, CEO & Co-Founder of Optera: $17.5 Million Raised to Build the Future of Carbon Management and Accounting
Joselyn Lai
CEO & Co-Founder of Bedrock Energy
Joselyn Lai, CEO & Co-Founder of Bedrock Energy: $9 Million Raised to Power the Future of Geothermal Energy
Elizabeth Muller
Co-Founder and Executive Chair of Deep Isolation
Elizabeth Muller, Co-Founder and Executive Chair of the Board of Deep Isolation: Over $22 Million Raised to Build the Future of Nuclear Waste Disposal
Arvin Ganesan
CEO of Fourth Power
Arvin Ganesan, CEO of Fourth Power: $20 Million Raised to Build the Future of Energy Storage
Kentaro Kawamori
CEO & Co-Founder of Persefoni
Kentaro Kawamori, CEO & Co-Founder of Persefoni: $114 Million Raised to Build the Climate Disclosure & Carbon Management Category
Dr. Kai-Philipp Kairies
CEO and Co-Founder of Accure
Dr. Kai-Philipp Kairies, CEO & Co-Founder of Accure: $18.5 Million Raised to Build the Future of Battery Intelligence
Josh Knauer
Co-Founder of Reseed
Josh Knauer, Co-Founder of Reseed: $5 Million Raised to Build the Future of Carbon Credits for Farmers
Matt LeDucq
CEO and Co-Founder of Forum Mobility
Matt LeDucq, CEO & Co-Founder of Forum Mobility: $423 Million Raised to Power the Future of Zero-Emission Trucking
Kenneth Herschel
CEO and Co-Founder of Viggo
Kenneth Herschel, CEO and Co-Founder of Viggo: Nearly $6 Million Raised to Build the Future of EV Charging Infrastructure
Dan Forman
CEO and Co-Founder of Copper Labs
Dan Forman, CEO and Co-Founder of Copper Labs: $13 Million Raised to Enable the Data-Driven Utility of the Future
Marc Borrett
CEO & Co-Founder of Reactive Technologies
Marc Borrett, CEO & Co-Founder of Reactive Technologies: $80 Million Raised to Build the Future of Grid Measurement
Sid Jha
Founder & CEO of Arbol
Sid Jha, Founder & CEO of Arbol: Over $20 Million Raised to Build the Future of Climate Risk Management
Javier Marti
CEO and Founder of Divirod
Javier Marti, CEO & Founder of Divirod: $7.6 Million Raised to Build the Google Maps For Water
Mukund Karanjikar
CEO of CleanJoule
Mukund Karanjikar, CEO of CleanJoule: $55 Million Raised to Power the Future of Sustainable Aviation Fuel
Jan Willem Rombouts
CEO & Founder of Beebop AI
Jan Willem Rombouts, CEO & Founder of Beebop AI: $5.5 Million Raised to Power Grid Orchestration for the Clean Energy Transition
Adam Tank
Co-Founder of Transcend
Adam Tank, Co-Founder of Transcend: $35 Million Raised to Revolutionize Critical Infrastructure Design
Scott Graybeal
CEO of Caelux
Scott Graybeal, CEO of Caelux: $70 Million Raised to Transform Solar Energy with Perovskite Technology
Preston Bryant
Co-Founder, Executive Chair, & Chief Commercial Officer of Momentum
Preston Bryant, Co-Founder of Momentum: $20 Million Raised to Transform Battery Recycling Through Materials Science Innovation
Adam Silver
CEO & Co-Founder of Plural Energy
Adam Silver, CEO & Co-Founder of Plural Energy: $2.8 Million Raised to Build the Future of Clean Energy Investing
Alex Siminoff
Director of Marketing of Parity
Alex Siminoff, Director of Marketing at Parity: Mastering HVAC Optimization with Effective B2B Storytelling
Zak Lefevre
CEO of ChargeLab
Zak Lefevre, CEO of ChargeLab: $20 Million Raised to Build the Operating System for EV Chargers
Saurabh Kapoor
CEO & Co-Founder of Metafuels
Saurabh Kapoor, CEO & Co-Founder of Metafuels: $22 Million Raised to Pioneer Synthetic Aviation Fuel Technology
Matt Loszak
CEO & Co-Founder of Aalo Atomics
Matt Loszak, CEO & Co-Founder of Aalo Atomics: $33 Million Raised to Build the Future of Nuclear Energy
Virginia Klausmeier
CEO and Founder of Sylvatex
Virginia Klausmeier, CEO and Founder of Sylvatex: More Than $15 Million Raised to Build a Better Class of Sustainable Materials and Drive the Green Revolution
Chris Hare
CEO of PRTI
Chris Hare, CEO of PRTI: Over $25 Million Raised to Transform America’s Billions of Waste Tires into Valuable Commodities
Allen Kramer
Co-Founder & COO of Crux
Allen Kramer, Co-Founder and COO of Crux: $27 Million Raised to Power the Future of Sustainable Finance
Marina Azcarate
Head of Marketing of Mitiga Solutions
Marina Azcarate, Head of Marketing at Mitiga Solutions: Driving the Future of Climate Risk with Cutting-Edge Tech
Gary Ong
CEO & Founder of Celadyne
Gary Ong, CEO & Founder of Celadyne: $5 Million Raised to Power the Future of Green Hydrogen Production
Michael Witte
CEO & Co-founder of Workrise
Michael Witte, CEO & Co-founder of Workrise: $750 Million Raised to Power the Future of the Energy Industry
Alisa Valderrama
Co-founder and CEO of FutureProof Technologies
Alisa Valderrama, Co-Founder and CEO of FutureProof Technologies: $10 Million Raised to Translate Climate and Weather and Financial Risk with Unprecedented Accuracy
Thibault Castagne
CEO and Founder of Vianova
Thibault Castagne, CEO and Founder of Vianova: $8.8 Million Raised to Build the Go-To Operating System for the Mobility World
Quentin Scrimshire
CEO and Co-Founder of Modo Energy
Quentin Scrimshire, CEO & Co-Founder of Modo Energy: $20 Million Raised to Build the Energy Asset Benchmarking Category
Troy Carter
CEO and Co-Founder of Earthshot Labs
Troy Carter, CEO and Co-Founder of Earthshot Labs: $11 Million Raised to Power the Future of Ecosystem Conservation and Restoration
Matei Stratan
CEO of Ogre
Matei Stratan, CEO of Ogre: $2 Million Raised to Build the Future of Energy Management
Iain Cooper
CEO of SeekOps Inc.
Iain Cooper, CEO of SeekOps, $23 Million Raised to Build the Future of Emissions Monitoring
Omar Abou-Sayed
Co-Founder & Executive Chairman of Vaulted Deep
Omar Abou-Sayed, Co-Founder & Executive Chairman of Vaulted Deep: $8 Million Raised to Build the Future of Carbon Removal