The following interview is a conversation we had with Henrik Johansson, CEO of Gembah, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: $14 Million Raised to Democratize Consumer Product Creation

Henrik Johansson
Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure. It’s all mine. 

Brett
Yeah, no problem. So before we begin talking about what you’re building there, can we just start with a quick summary of who you are and a bit more about your background? 

Henrik Johansson
Well, I’ve up in Sweden, so born and raised in Sweden, went to school there, got a master science, electrical engineering, computer science. Started working for an American firm, Anderson Consulting, which is a big global management consulting firm. And after just about a year there, I had up here to come to Dallas. And it wasn’t like it was supposed to be a long term thing. I came for six months and I never went back home. So I’ve been here since pretty much, but yeah, I transferred over, spent some time in Dallas, met my wife to be there. We met san Francisco. That’s where I got on my entrepreneurial track and started my first startup in Samprand during the.com days and been doing venture funded startups ever since. So almost 25 years now. On a personal level, I live in Austin, Texas, a family, two kids, chloe Axel, 1518 years old. 

Henrik Johansson
And that’s it. That’s me. Nice. 

Brett
That’s awesome. Take us back to the early days then, in the.com era. What was it like back then as an entrepreneur? 

Henrik Johansson
I didn’t come from entrepreneurial parents, feral families. Entrepreneurship was really foreign to me, quite honestly. I worked in management consulting after my wife and at the time my fiance moved to San Francisco, I was sent on the road on traditional management consulting stuff. I was traveling pretty much 90, 80% of the time and started reading books and started realized that this was not what I want to do with my life, I wanted to do something different. And started meeting people in San Francisco that started companies. And you read about the Internet and ebay and Netscape and other things and just started opening my eyes so that this was actually a path that you could go, that it wasn’t something that you had to be born to do, but you could actually decide to do it. And met. Tony Wilburship was my Co-Founder in that first business, and he convinced me to come over and quit my well paying job and taking a non paying job and building a startup. 

Henrik Johansson
So it was a super exciting time and it was pretty easy to get funding at the time because it was one of those times where two guys in a business plan could raise money if you had a pretty decent idea. So the early days was pretty easy to get started and it was like San Francisco at the time was just like relax, drink. And I think it was in many ways the epicenter of the startup world and it really felt that way too. So it was super exciting. 

Brett
And do you feel any of that energy now living in Austin? Obviously there’s a lot of media buzz about how a lot of tech companies are moving to Austin. Do you see any of that there? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, I mean, not so much. The last year, 2022, changed things quite a bit. Right. But yeah, there’s definitely been hype lately with Tesla moving here, for sure. And when I started in Austin, when I started my first startup here, there were just probably fewer venture funds that you can count one hand and now it’s tons of them, but there’s a new VC firm popping up or every month it feels like. And if you go to networking events I used to know everybody and now I go and I don’t recognize a soul there. So it’s definitely changed a lot and I think changed for the better. It is a hot, exciting market, but as I said, definitely cooled down a little over the last twelve months or so. 

Brett
Yeah, makes a lot of sense. And two questions we’d like to ask just to better understand what makes you tick as a Founder and as a leader, what CEO do you admire the most and what do you admire about them? 

Henrik Johansson
I saw that question and pick someone that’s not in the tech space. I’ve always admire Yvonne. Shermard the Founder CEO of Patagonia. I’ve always been one to care about the environment and have a passion for supply chain sustainability. Actually just about to finish a book on supply chain transparency, talking about how we can help founders create more sustainable consumer products. And I think Yvonne did an incredible job at Patagonia of building a business over the last 50 years. I think their fifth anniversaries this year, proving that you can have a social conscious, you can do good in the world and still build a highly profitable business. So I see that as an inspiration. Also pretty cool to see how in today’s startup world there’s so much hype around rapid growth and it’s really cool to see someone that can build a business over 50 years. 

Henrik Johansson
Right. It’s still there and it’s still cool. 

Brett
Absolutely. He’s a marketing genius as well. I think that was maybe two years ago. I don’t know if he was involved in it, but just Patagonia as a brand. When they banned the sale of their vest to finance Bros. I thought that was genius marketing move. 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, it was awesome. And then a few years before that they did the advertising campaign don’t buy this jacket. Like they had all these ads that say do not buy this jacket. It’s bad for the environment. Of course, it’s sold like Cupcakes. 

Brett
I think what’s so interesting about that brand too is it doesn’t feel like bullshit. A lot of brands have this fluffy purpose and things like that. But when you go one layer deeper, you find that it’s not real, it’s not aligned, it’s not integrated into the entire company. But Patagonia really does seem to be an aligned brand with everything that they preach. 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, for sure. And of course it’s also a good business and there’s no way around that he’s not a brilliant marketer and savvy businessman, but they donate a lot of their profits to charities. He was one of the founding members of a sustainable, apparent coalition that has done a ton of good in an industry that creates a lot of waste and had used in the past, used a lot of forced labor or child labor. And I think that it’s been an instrumental part in helping making that whole apparel business a better business, a more sustainable business overall. 

Brett
Yeah, absolutely. And what about books? Is there a specific book that’s had a major impact on you as a Founder? And this can be a business book or just a personal book that’s influenced how you view the world. 

Henrik Johansson
I wish I had something unique here, but the first business book that really changed my view of life was The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People. I can still remember when I was a consultant sitting in my corporate apartment in Southern Cal and my girlfriend was in San Francisco and I was reading The Seven Habits of How You Can Change Your Life and that there’s delta between impact and reaction. So at a personal level, that was groundbreaking from pure business perspective and a Founder. I think good to Great is the best one by Jim Collins. I’m sure a lot of your guests say that, but that’s a book that we literally use in our business every day. We use this hedgecog concept to clarify our strategy. And I think he’s just a brilliant writer. Nice. Yeah. 

Brett
That’s such a great call out. It’s a true business classic, I think. 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, it was based on reality too, right? It’s not just some opinion. He literally took a science based approach to looking at companies and comparison companies that were in the same space at the same time and which ones actually graduated from just being good to being great and identified these common principles that they had. And he’s a great writer too, so it’s entertaining and interesting to follow. Totally. 

Brett
Nice. Well, I think we have a better understanding of who you are. We understand you a bit more now. So let’s switch gears here and let’s dive into what You’re Building today. So to start with, can you just take us through the origin story? Yeah, for sure. 

Henrik Johansson
Before Gamba, I co-founded and built a business called Boundless. Boundless was spend management platform for procurement departments, particularly indirect procurement and Fortune 500 companies. So people spend money on marketing promotional products, print and things like that. So we built a platform that allowed their hundreds or thousands of buyers to buy things together and thus leverage to collect the buying power and reduce cost and all that good stuff. Through that, we started working with some big companies that wanted to create custom products. And that got me on the road to China. And I traveled over there to visit with some of the factories that we’re working with. And that was like an eye opening experience to me going from super high tech factories that had robotics and automation to realizing that some factories were just like in the basement of someone’s apartment. Right. With mud floors, basically. 

Henrik Johansson
So it really started like, wow, we do not know. At least most people don’t know, really, what’s going on there. And that really started my passion for writing and learning about transparency in the supply chain and building more sustainable supply chain. The other thing that happened is that for our platform, we allowed other small businesses to use our platform to service their customer. And it became experienced firsthand. Seeing how small businesses, how important this product journey is, when they create new products and how risky it is for them. It’s mission critical. Right. So if they fail in the product Journey, if they try to create A custom Product and that for some Reason Does not work out, that could mean the end of that business. They cannot afford to have $100,000 purchase order arrive and the product doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to. So, starting to end us up. 

Henrik Johansson
And I met my Co-Founder, Stephen Bluestein, who’s a product entrepreneur Shark Tank winner with this company, pride bites. And he had a lot of visibility into all the small businesses out there, how they were and their struggles in creating new consumer products. And we looked at that and looked at all the trends that happening in Ecommerce. We saw that. 

Brett
Wow. 

Henrik Johansson
There’s a huge opportunity here in helping all those small, mid sized businesses to create consumer product in a more transparent and scalable way. 

Brett
And can you take us through? What does it look like? Maybe just an example of a customer that you’ve worked with and how they use the platform. 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, for sure. So I’ll take two steps back. So Gemba is basically a global marketplace for consumer product creation. And our mission is to democratize consumer product creation, to make it easy for almost anyone to turn their idea into finished consumer product. Why is that bored? Well, Because when you go from Just buying something in Alibaba, right, you’re buying something Already exists. If you go and try to create something doesn’t exist. There’s a lot of complications, a lot of complexity, right? If you’re creating something, particularly with either moving parts that requires then mechanical engineering, or electrical components that requires electrical engineering. Now, suddenly you have two or three experts involved in creating that product. So you probably have an industrial designer, electrical engineer, or mechanical engineer. And now you need to orchestrate their collaboration to produce an end deliverable that actually does what it’s supposed to do. 

Henrik Johansson
And what we’ve seen is that the complexity there typically exceeds the small mid sized business, at least the small business capabilities, right? Because unless you can afford to hire designers and engineers and have the full time team, also, you don’t know how to manage that process. And that’s what we built Gamba to help people do that. So back to your question. An example, for example, somebody came to us before holiday season. I think it was two years ago, one of our first big customers. So this was a breakthrough client, one of the big aggregators in the ecommerce space. And they had seen that massage guns was a trending product. You’ve seen those, right, where this handle and you hold and you can massage yourself. And they saw that product was trending, but they didn’t know much more about it. So they came to Gamba and said, we believe that we should create a massage gun, help us figure out what to create, how to create it, find a factor to create it. 

Henrik Johansson
And we want this product on the shelf before the holiday seasons because we think it’s going to be a big seller. So we connect with them, with researchers that help them do the analysis and define the features of the product. Back then, it was create multiple heads and creates more silent engine and a carrying case, I think, with the three certain differentiating features. Then we connected them with designer that had designed those type of products before and the electrical engineer and the mechanical engineer. And finally we found factories that had built those type of products before, so they didn’t have to design all the components from scratch. And end to end, the whole journey took, I think it was 109 days, so just a little over three and a half months. And they were able to get that product, a new, unique product created, put it on the shelves for the holiday season, and became a million dollar seller. 

Henrik Johansson
So that’s one example of a customer that used all the different components, all the different services or offerings that Gamma can provide to take a product from concept all the way to finished product on the shelf. 

Brett
And what would that journey look like without you? Would it just be super fragmented and someone just going into the depths of the Internet and trying to find a supplier in China? What would that experience be like? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, a lot of people ask that what’s your competition? And I think that the competition is the status quo, sort of the ham and egg in it. Like you described a lot of people, you may go to a local product agency, so there’s a handful of those in every mid sized town, but those are typically pretty small companies that hire a few industrial designers and maybe a couple of engineers that could potentially help you. But what we’ve seen is that they typically don’t have the connections with a factory. So they may design something in isolation and it may look pretty and they have great pretty picture. You get all excited about it, but once you take that to the factory and say, hey, can you make this for me? That might be completely cost prohibitive. They might require hundreds of thousands of dollars of tooling or molds and things like that. 

Henrik Johansson
So even if you go to product design route, it could be really expensive and you may not end up with the right result. And then others just try to contact the factory directly. They try to go through sourcing agent and there you often have very little control of what’s happening. And you might get lucky that you find a great factory with high integrity that knows how to design the product if you’re looking for. But it’s almost a little bit like building a house without having an architecture in place first, right? If you just start building without really having the detailed specs of what you’re trying to create, the odds that you’re going to get exactly what you want are pretty slim. Does that make sense? It’s like writing a software program without having the design laid out first, right, to start coding. 

Brett
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And what about on the IP protection side? Is there any involvement there? Because I’m guessing that has to be a risk of the pace of the go to market that you can bring for them, right? If they’re doing it in less than three months, is there time for IP protection? Or what are your views and how do you fit that into the platform? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, great question, and it is a concern for many. And without going too deep, I mean, there are really two types of patents, really the utility patent, which is more for innovations, real inventions, and that probably takes two to three years or more to get approved and cost tens of thousands of dollars. So that’s usually not an option for the typical consumer product company. And rarely do they have things that are that unique. Then there’s something called a design patent that you can get in a short period of time and for a lot of sellers to sell on Amazon. Amazon actually do recognize design patents. And if you can prove you have a design patent, they will actually shut down the other listing versus they won’t even get involved with utility patents because that takes a lot of legal proceedings to figure out if somebody’s actually violating the utility patent. 

Henrik Johansson
So, yeah, short answer is yes. We help them in our attorneys so we can’t provide legal counsel. We have a big partner network of IP attorneys and other folks that can help. So we can do quick research up front and see if we believe it might be violating a patent or infringing on somebody else’s patent. And if it does, then we recommend that they retain an IP attorney to do the research and help them figure out if there’s some way they can get around that patent. Another piece of that a lot of people don’t realize that if they go straight to the factory and start working with that factory and that factory creates a product for them, unless you have a legal agreement that protects you, that factory owns that product pretty much, right? So there’s nothing to prevent them from selling that product to other people, too. 

Henrik Johansson
So there are a lot of those global legal challenges that you have to be aware of. And a partner like Gamba can help protect Ecommerce or any product company from some of those liabilities. 

Brett
Super interesting. And when you look at your customer base, is it made up mostly then of inventors or small business owners with an idea, something that would appear on Shark Tank, for example, like you had kind of referenced there with one of your co-founders? Or is it oftentimes product teams that are part of big Fortune 500 companies that are trying to just develop and push out new products to market? 

Henrik Johansson
Great question. The vast majority of our customers are small, mid size, so we don’t have any Fortune 500 companies. They typically have whole internal teams departments that do this. And then within that it’s typically, I’d say 80% are companies that are more focused on building a brand or product collection, right? Like they have a yoga brand or they have a weightlifting brand or they have a kitchen accessory brand and maybe 20% or more that inventor that’s come up with some completely new and novel idea. So again, we can help them both. The inventor type typically goes through a longer journey where they spend a lot more time in feasibility study and then product design and can drawing and drawing meets these ups versus more of the brand. Like, let’s say you have a yoga brand and you already have a yoga mat and you have a yoga hat and you’ll order a bottle and now you decided, I also want to sell a towel or something like that, right? 

Henrik Johansson
They’re typically less concerned with something completely unique and novel. They like to maybe customize it to their needs a little bit. But often those kind of customers, you can help get a product to market faster with lower risk and lower cost by starting what already exists, right? So you start talking to the factories rather than starting from scratch. You go to the factory and say, what are things that you can make? Here are the needs of that customer. Can we create something within your existing capabilities that’s going to be unique to this customer? But you don’t have to start from scratch. Right. And that’s particularly after the recession, after the economy shifted, we’re seeing a lot that offering is really popular because people have less money to spend. They want to bring products to market faster. And as long as it provides some differentiation, they’re okay with that. 

Henrik Johansson
That they can’t design every little feature from scratch. Does that make sense? 

Brett
Yeah, it does. And do you ever intend to go up market into like, Fortune 500 or big enterprise and offer this as a more efficient way to do product innovation and product development? Or is your goal and long term focus to really just dominate this small and medium sized business market? 

Henrik Johansson
As I said, our ICP is really the million to 50 million. But we do have customers that are over $100 million in revenue that have hundreds or thousands of SKUs. We work with several commerce aggregators that raised billions over the last several years to buy up smaller SMBs. So there’s really no upper limit. It’s more around what I talked about earlier. Most the bigger companies already have internal teams that do some of this. But I believe that as Gamba grows, we will become an attractive alternative for somebody to outsource this. It’s pretty generally accepted that you can outsource software development. And many companies have both the internal team, but then they also outsource some development to Ukraine or India or other places. You don’t see that really happening in hardware development or consumer product development, at least not that I’m aware of. And I think that the missing link is someone like Gamba that has a platform that has literally thousands of different experts on the platform that can come in and start working with you on that platform with a very low ramp time. 

Henrik Johansson
And that you can find specific experts. Like some of the aggregators, for example, they may buy a vacuum cleaner brand, right. That they obviously don’t have a vacuum cleaner designer or someone with decades of experience in designing vacuum cleaners on staff. And it probably never makes sense for them to hire that either. If this is one out of 20 brands that so that’s where Gamba becomes a great augment of your existing staff. Right? Because we have people that work at Dyson or people that worked at Bows if you’re going headphones, or people that worked at Nike if you’re doing running shoes. So we can find that very specific expertise that can help with almost any product. And that probably has a decade of experience in creating that type of product that’s this huge value add to the customer to try and develop a new product. 

Brett
Yeah, I can imagine. And then is it a marketplace model, then, where you’re charging a fee that these experts are paid, is it a SaaS model? What’s the business model look like? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, we operate as a marketplace. Many calls the managed marketplace because we go beyond just making the connection. Right. So it’s not just a transactional marketplace where we sell something and it’s not just a talent marketplace where we make a connection with a resource, but our platform is and our company is directly involved in the delivery of that project. Right. So it’s a longer term project. It’s multiple people that are involved in the project and it’s a very skilled and specific labor that’s involved in it. So that’s why a lot of people refer to this as a managed marketplace. And that allows us to become very sticky with the customer, too. It’s not like they almost have zero circumvention issues that a lot of marketplace deals with that they want to stay involved in it, but if they don’t add any value anymore to that relationship, often they get circumvented by the customer to go straight to the supplier. 

Henrik Johansson
But in Gamba’s case, the platform and the knowledge base and the collaboration platform is integral in actually delivery of the value to the customer. Right. They could certainly call the mechanical engineer, electrical engineer, and industrial designer and say, hey, let’s meet at the coffee shop and work this out. They don’t know all the required steps and deliverables and how to orchestrate collaboration between those resources. Odds are not going to get it. Right. Does that make sense? 

Brett
Yeah, it does. And one follow up question then, on the marketplace side, so we’ve had a number of marketplace founders on the podcast and they all talk about the chicken and egg problem, which is something that I guess all marketplaces have to deal with. So how did you navigate around that? Just look at this site. 1200 plus sourcing experts, 1000 plus product designers, 2000 plus factories. Those are big numbers on that side of things. So how much attention did you put into building that side of the marketplace before you went out and started trying to bring brands on and yeah, just any insights that you can share in that journey would be super interesting to hear. 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Any marketplace, it’s a chicken and egg. And my answer has always been, in any business, would you have to start with small chickens and small eggs? I know it’s an imperfect analogy, but a lot of people talk about nowadays atomic networks. Right. I think that when Uber started, like the first time, their atomic network was like Union Street Station 05:00 p.m. Because all they needed to do is to have enough Uber taxis available between 430 and 530 to be able to meet the needs of their customers that come out of the train station at that time. Right. Typically, if you can prove out success in an atomic network, then you can carry that model over and over right to other networks. And in our case, the Atomic network has been more around specific categories of excellence or product categories. So today we have half a dozen, what we call categories of excellence, like sports and outdoors, homey kitchen, toys, pet, baby products, et cetera. 

Henrik Johansson
And within that, each one of those categories, we then have critical mass of designers and engineers and factories so that if somebody comes to us with a product in those categories, we can typically identify multiple people that could help them with that project. And that way we can make it competitive, we can find the right people to work on their project. And then as you build that out, you add category after category. So that’s been the approach that we’ve been taking that makes a lot of sense. 

Brett
And what would you say so far has been your greatest go to market challenge since launching? 

Henrik Johansson
I think in any category defining company, and we see ourselves as that there’s always a challenge to educate the consumer, right? People don’t know that it can be done. And we get that all the time from prospects and customers. Like, really? You can do this. I’ve never seen this before. It’s like, h*** no you haven’t, because nobody’s done it before. So I think that is the biggest challenge. There’s a lot of consumer education that has to go on and all marketplaces talk about that. There’s a hard side of the market of the network and then the easy side. And I’d say on our suppliers love us. For industrial designers and current engineers, we’re probably the best gig economy opportunity for them. Because if the mechanical engineer they post a profile upward OnStar, nobody’s going to hire them, right? Because people don’t know how to find and filter and evaluate a mechanical engineer. 

Henrik Johansson
But we do when we can put them on your project and assign them to the right tasks. So the experts love us, the factories love us because we bring them qualified customers that know what they’re doing, that have complete design specs, that have funding line up and all that and right expectations. So even though it’s taken effort and time to build the network on the supply side, I think that’s always been easier because the value proposition is so clear to them. They get more work and they get good work and qualified customers and in many ways they’re doing the work that they’ve always done. So you don’t have to explain to them what it is they’re going to do versus the customer. It’s a new experience, it’s a new way to engage. It’s like, oh, I can create anything through this platform and anything in between quotes. 

Henrik Johansson
But I think that’s also some of the most exciting things about building a business is we’re learning, like how do we tell that story, how do we explain to people what it is? And I think like many. Engineering driven companies. We started talking a lot about what were doing and how were doing it. And that doesn’t immediately resonate with people. Right. Ultimately people, the value customers want from us is a product on the shelf. They want a product on the shelf that’s going to sell that is of great quality and a good price. And it took us a while to figure out how to talk to customer and how to explain to them that they’re not necessarily that interested in how the sausage is made. They just want real good sausage. 

Brett
Makes a lot of sense. And you mentioned something there which I want to dive a bit deeper into, which is category creation. So when you started the company from day one, did you view this as a category creation play or what were your views on category creation at the start and how have they evolved to how you think about it today? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, to be completely transparent, I don’t think I knew the term category creation when we started the company. Now play bigger. Is this mandatory reading for everybody on the team? But I’d say we always knew that this was big. We always knew that this was new. So I’d say that we always felt that this was creating a new category of the will, even if we didn’t use that language initially. But then a good friend of mine, Brent Herch, is a very successful CEO in town, a good friend. He recommended when were talking, it’s like he was literally on stage at one of our company events and he said, eric, you guys should always play bigger. And we did. And then after that we identified our thesis and our lightning event and all that stuff. And that was great because you got a framework for how to approach category creation. 

Brett
And what was the first lightning strike that you did? Or is that still coming? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, we’ve done several, to be honest with you. We didn’t find a way to do just one massive one based on what we talked about before. We kind of went category by category. So we’ve done mini strikes, I’d say in different categories because there wasn’t one show, right, one event where we could go to. We’re going to reach all our different types of customers. So I’d say we are in a thunderstorm in progress where we do little lightning strikes in different industries as we proceed. 

Brett
Makes a lot of sense. And what is the category then? Is it the RSC, world’s first product development marketplace? So is product development marketplace the category or how are you naming the category and defining the category? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, I think that’s how we define it internally. That is a global marketplace with consumer product creation that drastically lowers the Bearish Center to create new products and bring it to market. But then, as I mentioned earlier, that’s not necessarily how we describe ourselves to customers because they don’t really care about the category or how we do it. They care more about how do we deliver value to them. 

Brett
Makes sense. And I saw something just interesting on your website when I was looking at it earlier today, and it was called Final Product. What is that? Is it a TV show that you’re producing? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah, that’s right. Haven’t launched yet. It’s still in development. We work with a production company up in New York that several famous reality TV shows that I can’t mention because then I would identify them, but you would recognize them. And we’re currently pitching the Final Product concept to multiple studios or TV networks. So hopefully we will get it produced. And sometime later this year or early, the following have a TV show that follows the journey of our customers. Basically, Shark Tank really starts when the company is already successful and they’re looking for more funding to go to the next level. Final Product starts with the idea or the concept or potentially prototype of an entrepreneur that have a great idea that haven’t been able to bring it to market yet, and then going through the process of finding the best ideas. And then the winner gets to get their product made and turn into Final Product. 

Brett
Wow, that’s so cool. That must be so exciting to work on, and I’m sure that’s a lot of fun as well. Are you the host of it? 

Henrik Johansson
Probably not. I have a day job that I have to look to, and I’m sure that people are a lot better at that than I am. Hopefully, I have some kind of a cameo that I can show up and say some catchphrase. You’re hired. 

Brett
Nice. I love it. 

Henrik Johansson
Awesome. 

Brett
Henrik well, unfortunately, that’s all we’re going to have time to cover for today. This interview has been a blast. It’s been really fun learning from you here. Before we wrap up, if people want to follow along with your journey, where’s the best place for them to go? 

Henrik Johansson
Yeah. Go to Gamba.com. We publish content all the time. We have some great case studies about companies that would help, whether it’s from back of an appian ID to Final Product or some companies that we help that couldn’t get product out of China. We helped them move to India. So there’s a lot of examples there of the great work that we can do. So follow us. Go to Gamma.com or follow us on LinkedIn or Instagram and follow our journey. Awesome. 

Brett
Henrikh. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And let’s keep in touch. 

Henrik Johansson
Let’s do it. Thanks a bunch. 

Brett
This is fun. Cheers. Take care. Bye.