The following interview is a conversation we had with Dave Copps, CEO of Worlds, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: $31 Million Raised to Power the Future of Industrial Automation

Dave Copps
Hey, glad to be with you. Thanks for having me. 

Brett
No problem. Super excited for this conversation. So were just joking in the pre interview. You’ve been doing AI long before it was cool. So tell us about your experience with AI and some of the companies that you’ve built and sold prior to founding Worlds.

Dave Copps
Oh, gosh. So, yeah, I’ve been doing that for quite a while. I think I fell into it almost by accident. So I was in college as a frustrated business major, and I was pretty sure I didn’t want to just be a business major. It was boring to me, and I ended up dropping in on anthropology class, and I started talking about corporate culture, and I was fascinated by people. And so this idea of culture inside of a company was new to me at the time, and now it’s everywhere, of course, but it really became kind of the foundation for me in starting companies. I think my first company was called Ingenium, which we made the name up. I think it’s a latin that means lo behold a creative invention. But it was just one of the first semantic search engines. 

Dave Copps
And so we built that. And then my second company was brainspace, and brainspace was another. We were going into digital investigations. So the idea was all these large litigations that were happening with hundreds of millions of documents and lawyers sitting around tables, like, what if we could actually build a technology that could review all 100 million documents and learn from them? And it’s really a lot of stuff that’s kind of coming out in chat GPT. Now, we did it the hard way back then. It didn’t scale like chat CBT does, but we did build the ability for a technology to learn dynamically from information as you gave it the information, you know. So, but we sold that company in 2017, and, now I’m on my third with Worlds, you know, so taking AI out of the back office into the real world. 

Brett
Let’s talk a little bit about that first company. So you founded that in 1998. You had in 2004. So you started the company and you survived the.com crash. What was that like to be building in that phase, survive that phase and then, you know, come out a winner with a win there at the end?

Dave Copps
You know, it was a crazy time because I remember looking around me and it was just a, it was a bloodbath. And all my friends companies were dying. We made it. And I think a lot of it was just grit. I’ll tell you one thing, I was really sure I was not going to ever let anybody go, you know, so my thing was I never want to have a layoff ever in any company I’ve ever had, you know, because to me, that’s just a sign that you as a leader didn’t plan very well. So I’ve had to start up, you know, my last one where I actually paid payroll for a couple sessions just to keep the company going. 

Dave Copps
And when you have your rough times, you know, but, yeah, the.com thing was crazy, you know, because everybody was dying, you know, and I think it’s one of the things, you know, we might talk about later, just, you know, when you pick your investors, for me, it’s really important to pick investors that were not just about money, that they’re definitely into you and your vision and they want to support you in that. And I’ll never forget the moment when we’re, you know, we’re in the.com, we’re about to crash, you know, just like all my friends. And my lead investor pulls out his checkbook and says how much you need to keep going. I said a quarter million dollars. 

Dave Copps
And he wrote me a quarter million dollar check and did not ask for anything special in return, just for whatever the shares were worth at the time. He wanted that and valued. So, like, you don’t meet people like that now and ill never forget that. Im, when we sold the company and we had the big dinner, I told that story so he could just lift them up in front of everybody because that was just such a selfless thing to do and ill never forget it. Its kind of stuck in my mind. Its really important you choose the right investors because then when you have those moments where you’re going to be challenged and life doesn’t quite work the way you want it to, you want to have the right people behind you. 

Brett
Yeah, it makes sense. And unfortunately, I feel like I don’t hear many of those stories. 

Dave Copps
Yeah. 

Brett
Where they kind of take advantage. No, they don’t take advantage of you, but, like, they sees the opportunity, which I guess makes sense if you’re just thinking about it from like a pure investment perspective, and they kind of take advantage of the situation. So those are the stories you typically hear. But glad to hear you had a positive experience. 

Dave Copps
Yeah, for sure. 

Brett
Now, when it comes to founders who have inspired you, who would you say is the most inspirational Founder that you’ve met or just studied along the way? 

Dave Copps
I think my heroes are more historical figures. I do have a couple kind of current founders. But when I think about, like, who my true heroes are, you know, it’s like people that change the way we think today or they change the world. I look at people like Nelson Mandela and just kind of how he was, this idea of peaceful resistance, you know, Guy spent 24 years in prison and he came out speaking about forgiveness and reconciliation. Like we could all learn from that, you know, Martin Luther King, again, one of the best orators you ever had in our country, and judge a man not by the color of his skin, but the content of their character. Just people like that really inspire me. 

Dave Copps
If I look to recent founders, the ones that I looked at, people I have a lot of respect for today, I think one would be imagining the stock, the CEO of stability, AI. I love his vision for AI today that should be open source and democratized. And I think if we could just do what he’s describing, I think we’ll be fine. And I look around and kind of wonder if that’s going to happen. But he’s a guy that talked about, one of my favorite quotes of his is that humanity is creatively constipated. He said, let’s make it so we can poop rainbows. But he’s this guy that just talks about the power of AI and how we can do so much with it, right? And I love that. I love that. I think the other one would be Saul Khan of Khan Academy. 

Dave Copps
I just. This man is on a mission to educate the world. And with his new con Migo, where he got together, open AI and created this technology now where every person in the world could have a personal tutor. I’ve signed up. I have my conveyor tutor, you know, and from five years old till, you know, you’re 6ft under the time, between that, he just. Everyone can have a personal tutor. And I just love what he stands for. Like, he knows that so much of the world will change. 

Dave Copps
He accomplishes his goal like he’s someone that has a vision that I think could have such an impact on the world, much more of an impact than most people you think about, just because of what’s possible if everybody in the world is educated, as I think, the pricing is like $4, you know, $4 a month or $2 a month or something like that. It’s just crazy, you know, there’s no reason every person in the world can be fully educated now and live a great life. And so I love Sal Khan. I think he’s amazing. Yeah. 

Brett
Huge fan as well, and especially on the first one with stability, AI. Something that I want to ask about then is, you know, you mentioned vision for AI. So take us back to, like, the late nineties when you were working with AI quite a long time ago. Like, what were your thoughts about the future of AI back then? Did you have the idea that it was going to be this revolutionary technology, like it’s really become? Or was it too early to really be able to see that?

Dave Copps
I think when I first started working in AI, I did not see it the way I see it today, or even in the last, call it six or seven years. In the early days, AI was still something that we had instructed what to do. I mean, you programmed in the intelligence, you know, horses have heads, humans have heads, but they’re different, you know, that you audit things like that. So it was very cumbersome, very hard, and it was not generalized and flexible like we’re talking about today. And, like, what’s going to take us to Agi, right? 

Dave Copps
So what makes humans so unique in the world is that our generalized flexible intelligence, like we can walk into a room and see something for the first time, but kind of know what we’re seeing, you know, with AI’s in the past, if you would didn’t train it to see those things, it did. There is invisible, you know, like, I always give the extreme example of you have a crosswalk with students and crossing guard, you know, but then if the lion walked across the street, this wouldn’t see it’d be invisible, you know, because I wasn’t trained to see a lion, you know, but that kind of a thing, this generated this idea of a generalized flexible intelligence is what’s been missing from AI for a while. 

Dave Copps
I think probably maybe around seven years ago, I started seeing seven, eight, maybe even nine or ten years ago, I started to really get tuned into the power of AI and how it’s going to just be absolutely world changing, you know, and I think from that point on, I was really as much of a student as I was a practitioner. I try to learn as much as I possibly can about it and see what we can do and apply those things. But AI has been on quite a journey, I think even the last twelve months. I think about probably 2012, when deep learning, a lot of stuff came out. That’s when there were really big changes. But we reached the real full potential of deep learning maybe a year or two a couple of years ago. 

Dave Copps
I think it’s funny because I don’t know if it was lecun or one of the top AI guys said, hey, we need something new. We’re at the pinnacle. Deep learning. And boom, transformers came out. But I think what’s fascinating me today is I think we’re underestimating what happened with OpenAI and chat GPT. When you start to think about what really happened there, it’s unbelievable. We basically have AI’s that can now pay attention and to learn dynamically without any intervention. When they built chat GPT, they didn’t tell it what to learn. They just took 46 terabytes of data at it. So you have at it the AI’s multi threaded, of course, these transformers, multithread transformers, going after it and learning. But this idea that an AI can now pay attention and only learn about the things that matter is changing the world. 

Dave Copps
And then this idea of, we call RL HFS, or reinforcement learning, human feedback. Now, also after you build that first AI out, they’re kind of learning like children now, right? So you’re born with certain autonomic knowledge, right? So you know something’s hot when you touch it, or cold or sharp or blunt and things like that. Same thing with an AI, you get that 46 terabytes of data and it knows something, but when it really learns is when it interacts with people. So now we’re seeing kind of this human feedback is kind of the next phase of growth with these AI’s. The more we’re interacting with them, the more they’re learning. And that’s just fascinating. And it’s setting the table for what’s next, which is even more exciting. I think we’re in an incredible time right now. It’s almost like everything’s possible now. 

Dave Copps
It’s a little scary, but also exciting at the same time. 

Brett
Thats a perfect position to be in and probably a perfect segue for us to talk about everything that you’re building today. So how we like to begin this part of the interview is really focusing on the problem. So at a high level. What problem is world solving?

Dave Copps
So were the creators of a software platform thats bringing AI based automation directly into the ground floor operations of all the worlds largest industrial companies. So companies like Chevron, Petronas, Warner Industries, PepsiCo, Timkensteel, they’re all using Worlds today to measure, analyze and build automation into their physical operations again. So I think from my past, I did a lot of back office AI. We’re essentially taking AI out of the back office and bring it into the real world. So a real superpower is how we can capture and convert the physical processes that are driving daily operations in these large industrial companies and convert them into a live data stream so that they can use to achieve a real time sensing of their very complex systems. Turning the real world into a live data stream is the crux of our business. 

Dave Copps
So people can now look at their real world as data and in real time affect it. We have some of our clients, they have very dangerous environments, steel companies and energy companies, and we have lots of heavy machinery. This ability to use an AI to even understand when there might be a critical variance happening that could cause an injury and to set an alarm in real time, you know, to make sure that doesn’t happen. So making sure people are not in the wrong place at the wrong time, but, you know, so it’s really interesting. It’s AI for the real world. Once we have the real world as a live data stream, what can we do to change and alter it? The answer to that is almost anything. 

Brett
When you have a platform that can do anything, how do you decide where to focus your attention in terms of go to market? 

Dave Copps
It’s a great question. You know, how do you become a jack of all? Not a jack of all, train, semester, nothing, right? I think that’s always been a challenge for me because I tend to build companies, our companies, we tend to build technologies that have very broad capabilities. And so when you build a broad capability, it can be used in virtually any market. That’s definitely happening with this company now, I’ll tell you this. Right now we’re focused in the center of supply chain. So because we’re 50 people, we can’t focus on everything, but focus generally in the center of supply chain. So these are know some of the world’s largest companies that are basically trying to solve their big operational, real world operational problems. So now they’re growing faster and larger than they ever have before. 

Dave Copps
So their ability to observe and analyze and affect operations at scale is really becoming untenable. It’s something that’s harder and harder for them to do. And so we’ve come up with this technology that allows them to see their operations simultaneously. So it’s almost like this superpowers of observation, the ability to see all of your businesses simultaneously and to have each one learn from the other. It’s a superpower, for sure. So we’re focused in the center supply chain right now. We are working on a technology that may change that drastically and make it so that we are truly building a capability. And then that capability can be used in any company. 

Dave Copps
And if that’s the case, then we’ll have to work with partners to supply that last mile, that less use case, and we’ll focus on the capability and the partnership, large channel partners and sis, you know, build the actual end solutions that are built on top of our platform, our capability. 

Brett
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Dave Copps
Yeah, I think, you know, people talk about it in different ways. The digital transformation, you know, so every large company right now is trying to solve this problem so we don’t walk into any company today. They go, I haven’t thought about that. I haven’t thought about how can I measure the real world? I can’t thought. I haven’t thought about how do I build more automation? Because especially since COVID like supply chain in itself, I’ll just put this stat out there for you. There’s 15.5 million more jobs. There are people to fill them. So building automation into your real world processes, you can do more with the same amount of people. It’s no longer a nice to have, it’s a mandate. You have to, or you won’t survive. 

Dave Copps
And then you look at what happened after COVID, we got a real stark reminder of what happens when people don’t come into the office or come to work. Businesses shut down. So how do we build more resilience in our companies? And one of the ways you can build more resilience is to build in more and more automation. So those two things together, the shrinking workforce and this idea of building in more resilience has set up a really nice environment for our company since we’re so focused on automation and helping these companies build more automation in their physical environments. 

Brett
Trey, how have you seen your messaging and positioning evolve over the last, let’s say twelve months? 

Dave Copps
Oh man. Well things are moving so fast today. I think when we started Worlds were building a better way to do computer vision just three and a half years ago. But today it’s evolved into becoming a foundational model for real world AI. Like what chat, CPT did for text, we’re doing for the real world when we look at this. So you can take video and learn dynamically from video about the real world. When we look towards the future, I think we see a world where English is the language we use to communicate with machines. And in this world we can engage in conversations with those machines about what’s happening in the world, how we want to change it. 

Dave Copps
So we’re starting to look at as AI becomes more multimodal, so it’s not just about text anymore, but now we can speak to AI’s and the language we used to speak with AI’s is English. That’s changing things. Now we can have conversations with machines about what’s happening in the world, ask it questions about what’s happening in the world. With our technology we can start to create that index of everything, if you will. So it starts to tag everything that’s in your world. Now you can start to engage with machines and ask questions about so what is happening? 

Dave Copps
How could I, you know, what process is about to break, what critical variances are occurring every day that I should be aware of and almost, I think that’s the future, is that we’re going to start having conversations with machines about the world, how we can change our world. 

Brett
When it comes to traction, growth and adoption, are there any metrics and numbers that you can share trey? 

Dave Copps
Sure, yeah I mean our growth is incredible. Last year we grew 300% year over year. This year we projected another triple. I don’t think well quite get there but were on pace for about 270% growth. I don’t see that slowing anytime soon. We have a land and expand strategy so we bring out an account, we bring one or two sites but then once those two sites are up and going they, we put them at all their other sites. Most people were working with half, 50 to 100 sites or more. And so we’re just hitting the crux of the expand portion of what we’re doing so, I don’t see that growth slowing. It might even increase. So we’re in a unique spot. There’s a little bit of luck here. You’re not always. I think I’ll take it. 

Dave Copps
The market seems to be forming around us right now. I mean, what the world wants right now, especially these large industrial companies, is more automation. How can we build automation into our environments? And that’s exactly what we build, a platform that allows companies to do that. And so I think we pinch ourselves a little bit knowing that we’re in the right place at the right time. But we are definitely in a little bit of a perfect storm right now. The technology and AI where it is today, has made it possible for us to do what we do. And the timing of what we’re doing is absolutely peaking right now. Every large company is trying to figure this problem out. 

Brett
Trey, what are you doing to ensure that you can capture all of that market demand that’s out there? Obviously, there’s a lot of noise around this technology now. There’s a lot of funding that’s been going around. What are you doing to make sure that you really capture all that demand? 

Dave Copps
Well, I think for us, it’s going to be about asking ourselves, how can we change, how can we grow and accelerate our growth the way that we’re structured today? I think we can continue to triple. But if we want to get bigger than that, we have to consider a different model, and we’re doing that. We’re starting to have conversations with some of the largest sis in the world. These are the big four, if you will, and others. And they’re very excited. I think these large systems integrators right now, they’re looking for something like this or looking for platforms that they can build a business around. And I mean, every single company that they’re dealing with is working on digital transformation. Like, the world is changing right now, and the physical world and the digital world are collapsing together. 

Dave Copps
And companies are starting to realize that the only way for us to progress is to be a part of that digital transformation. So having a platform like ours, where you can actually turn your real world environment into a live data stream and create this ability for these large sis now to, with their world, their clients world as data, to start to solve virtually any problem they have, it’s a huge thing. So we’re getting a lot of attention from the large systems integrators and some of the hyperscale companies. We’re starting to work closely, more closely with Microsoft and Nvidia and so I think it’s a bright future ahead. I think there’s anything that keeps me up at night, it’s not about, do I have a technology that’s going to work? We’re way past that. We’ve got product market fit out there. It works fantastic. 

Dave Copps
And we’ve got some very large clients that love what we have and want more of it. My, what keeps me up at night is how do I scale this thing? How do I make this thing grow ten x, you know, 20 x 30 x? And that’s what keeps me up at night right now. 

Brett
All in all, it’s probably good things to stay up at night worrying about. How do you grow ten x 20 x? That’s much better than worrying about other things that I think other founders have had to worry about. 

Dave Copps
No, that’s right. And like I said, I do take that. Don’t take that for granted. You know, I think we are in the right place at the right time kind of thing. And I don’t take that for granted. We’re. But I’ll take it. I’ll take it. 

Brett
How do you think you got timing, right? Because it just sounds like perfect timing. Was that an accident or like, when you were starting this company, did you have this kind of vision to know that this was going to be a market? 

Dave Copps
I think we knew. So my last two companies were back office AI, and we did have this inkling that what we kept saying to each other was, I think video is the new text. Like, that’s something we kept saying to each other, you know, and, like, what if we could create a technology that could see and sense the world like people, but at a scale, it’s not humanly possible. Like, we start asking ourselves those questions. And so we knew. We did know that, I think, you know, because were looking at stats like, you know, how many people spend on time on YouTube and things like that? It’s way more than they did on, you know, textual sources. Right? 

Dave Copps
And so I think we knew those things were happening, and it was a matter of kind of then extrapolating from that, well, what kind of a picture does that paint of the future? And for us, it was kind of a brilliant scope creep. We started with a vision we thought was pretty big, but now they look back on it’s gotten so much bigger over the last two and a half years, three years, because we keep getting this wonderful scope creep. Like, okay, yeah, we’ll solve all the problems of computer vision in the early days. But then it’s like, hey, well, we don’t know where things are happening. So why don’t we create live digital twins? So we came up with this idea of creating live digital twins.

Dave Copps
We capture the world in 2d with cameras and sensors, but then re express it live inside of a 4d model. So that 4d is time, so X, Y and Z plus time. And that was our next idea. So we did that. So now we create live visual twins of real world environments. It’s truly the industrial metaverse. You hear other companies talking about industrial metaverse, and it’s, to us, it’s a very small vision what they’re doing. Oh, yeah, a digital twin could be a jet engine or a building or something like that. Or for us, the entire environment is a digital twin. We create the entire environment as a digital twin. And everything happens inside this live digital twin. And when you have it as a twin, now you not only know what’s being sensed, you connect it with IoT, right? 

Dave Copps
So you know what’s being sensed from the sensor, you know when it’s being sensed, because all sensor data is time stamped or time series data. But now with the digital twin, you know where it’s being sensed. So were able to really fully sense environments in ways that were never possible before. But it was a scope creep thing, you know? To your point, it’s like we didn’t come up with the idea and say, oh, five years, we executed on it. No, the idea changes every six months, I shouldn’t say changes, but it evolves pretty radically every six months right now. And I think that’s changed, at least from my perspective, in businesses that used to be changed, what happened over the course of years. And now I think for this business, we see change happening almost quarterly. It’s moving so fast right now, makes. 

Brett
A lot of sense. Now let’s talk a little bit about funding, and I know we touched on that at the start, but just to circle back, you’ve raised 31 million to date. What have you learned about fundraising so far? 

Dave Copps
A lot. I think. For me, one of the things I do is I mentor a lot of entrepreneurs, and that’s definitely probably the biggest topic. How do you work with investors? One of the things I tell people for sure is don’t go after money for money’s sake. Find investors that really maybe even have a vested interest in your business. You being successful helps them in some way. So finding those strategics, can you find a strategic investor to start your business? I try to do that in every company I have. So aside from having the vc in or something. Well find a strategic who has a vested interest in our success, and thats helped a lot. But I think that you heard my story at the beginning of our talk here. 

Dave Copps
Me picking the right investor saved my business in the last one, and it created an opportunity for us to get to an exit. That’s because I chose the right investor. I do see lots of startups that are, they get desperate and they think they just got to take the money and they do it. I tell them, if you can possibly do it, don’t do that, don’t do it, because the next thing that happens is they want to replace the Founder and everybody’s got a friend. One thing I tell people is don’t take money for money’s sake. Find someone that has invested interest in your success and see if you can get them involved. 

Dave Copps
Because then it’s less about the money and more about how can you make a difference and how can we work together to create your business as a possibility for the world. It sounds easier said than done, and it is a little bit. Sometimes you’ve got to have money, but if that happens, just make sure you’re working with good people, really investigate and talk to people that have worked with them before and things like that, and stay away from the people that just want to run your business and kick you out. It happens all the time. I mean, it’s sad how often it happens. 

Brett
Yeah, I mean, just even the last few months I’ve had a few founders that I know very well that it’s happened to them. And I know in previous there’s a lot of famous examples of it happening as well. So definitely something that founders need to be aware of and should be honest, like concerned about. 

Dave Copps
Yeah, for sure. 

Brett
Based on everything you’ve learned so far, what would be the number one piece of go to market advice that you’d have for another Founder? 

Dave Copps
I always think of, we have this saying, we kind of say, build a market of one. And so a market of one has kind of two different pieces to it. So one is that you build a product that’s unique in the market, right? So it’s not just like in this case for Worlds, our current company, what we saw out in the market were a bunch of point solutions, like computer vision companies, digital twin companies, camera companies with AI, all these narrow functions, right? We thought, hey, what can we do that’s different? How can we create a market of one? The idea was, well, what if we built an open platform, Openapi, where even those other things that are out there could plug into our platform. We became the one place where it all comes together. 

Dave Copps
So cameras, IoT sensors, people process, it all comes together and it’s joined together in space and time in our platform. That was a decision we made probably a year and a half after we started the company, and it’s paid huge dividends because now when we walk into companies, they’re all working with those other things as point solutions. They’ll all have 1012, 15 point solutions. They’re trying to integrate them. It’s impossible. We walk in and say, hey, plug them into our platform. They’re all connected in space and time. You have 200 cameras, plug them into our platform. Every camera knows what every other camera is seeing. They’re blown away. One was product build a product that is unique in the market. The second thing is business modeling. How do you deliver that thing? 

Dave Copps
We came up with this idea because in our world, data is the thing. Especially when you have sensor data in IoT, you’re shooting a lot of data up to the cloud. We had this idea of, well, what if we didn’t charge for data? Everybody else charges for data. We said, how do we do that? Well, we move all the data that compute it to our customers. Cloud, our only cost is people costs. Because we’re using their cloud, they already pay for their bandwidth. The cloud companies, they already pay for that stuff, and we did that. So now our cost went down to zero. So we created a flat feed pricing model, flat fee, and everyone that we compete against is kind of like, what the hell? Because they’re charging for data. 

Dave Copps
And so, yeah, I think this idea of creating a market of one is build a unique product and then look at how you’re delivering that product to your customers, and you can make that unique as well. If your product and the way you deliver it are both unique, then you’ll create a market of one. And that’s what we’ve done with this company and my other two companies. 

Brett
Final question for you, let’s zoom out three to five years into the future. What’s the big picture vision that you’re building? 

Dave Copps
I’ll say a little bit about it. We’re going to make announcement in January, so I’ll give you a little bit of a teaser. So we’re actually working on transforming the whole AI training space. So again, kind of in this exercise of looking at what you’re doing and trying to understand how could you transform it and make it better. The part that’s really hard is training AI’s. So you draw boxes around things. You say dog, box around a cat and say cat person, all those things. But then the world is messy. So the real world changes and your models break. We call it model drift. And model drift is real. It happens all the time, and it’s persistent. So you build a model, it breaks, you fix it breaks, the real world changes. Fix it. And it breaks this insane pattern. 

Dave Copps
And so we’ve come up with this idea about, well, what if we could just really automate the training process? And we think we figured it out. We’ve got it live in the office and we’ll be talking more about it in January. But, you know, we think it’s going to be something that’s going to truly change the industry. So, yeah, I think so. When we look out from this company, it’s a little bit what I said before. It’s like we want to create a world where you can literally just start to have a conversation with your environment. 

Dave Copps
So, you know, so if you have a distribution center, having a conversation with the technology, the machines, about your environment, you know, and being able to build AI’s with your voice, you know, like saying, hey, worlds, you know, build me an AI that lets me know when any of my doors are open after  and talks back to you and says, well, sure, what do you want me to do with that? Send a note to my cell phone. Great. Your cell phone is 214-64-1852 yes. 

Brett
Okay. 

Dave Copps
Like, and that’s it. So you have this conversation with the world and then things happen. That’s where we see things going. AI is going to become multimodal. It’s going to be like talking to anybody else, except you’re going to be interfacing with an alien intelligence that maybe has a lot more data than you could ever have. So we want to be the first to that vision for the world, letting people talk and change their world. 

Brett
Amazing. I love the vision and I love that you’ve left us wanting more. So we’ll have to bring you back on to chat after that big announcement drops in January, I think you said. So looks forward to having you on for around two. We are up on time here for round one, so we’re going to need to wrap before we do. If there’s any founders that are listening in, they just want to follow along with your journey. Where should they go? 

Dave Copps
I’m all over. So, yeah, I am Devo is kind of my handle all over the interwebs, you know, so I am Davo. I am Davo. So yeah, everywhere. You’ll find me with that. But easy to get ahold of, and I’m real passionate about entrepreneurs, you know? So if you’re doing something exciting, let me know about it. And that real passion for helping entrepreneurs find their greatness, amazing. 

Brett
I love it. Dave, thanks so much for taking the time. It’s been a lot of fun. 

Dave Copps
Thanks, Brett. 

Brett
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