The following interview is a conversation we had with Liz Gilligan, CEO & Founder of Material Evolution, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: Liz Gilligan, CEO & Founder of Material Evolution: $19 Million Raised to Build the Future of Sustainable Cement
Brett
Hey everyone, and welcome back to category visionaries. Today we’re speaking with Liz Gilligan, CEO and founder of Material Evolution, a sustainable cement company that’s raised 19 million in funding. Liz, how are you doing today?
Liz Gilligan
I’m great. How are you, Brad?
Brett
I’m doing great and I’m super excited to have you here and super excited to chat. I’d love to just begin with a quick summary of who you are and maybe just more about your background.
Liz Gilligan
Perfect. Yeah. So my background is I have my PhD in cements. My favorite thing is, who knew that was a thing? So what we’ve been working on is how we decarbonize the cement industry. I kind of fell in love with cement, so I did my PhD in it. We working at foster and partners who were designing the concrete on different kind of high profile projects. But now we’re looking at how we change kind of the cement industry. How do we actually, you know, realize change at scale? How do we build the amazing team to kind of develop and scale that? And what kind of, how can each person make an impact? What does that kind of feel like?
Brett
Why cement? How did you settle on cement?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, so I think I kind of fell into it. It didn’t feel like I chose cement. It felt like it chose me. I was working at Foster and partners and was approached by this professor in Belfast to come and do a PhD there in cement. I really liked that I got to write the PhD in terms of what the question was. And then the more I dug into it, the more fascinating it is, the more it’s used in so many different applications. Kind of this alluring thing that we still don’t even know everything about. And it’s so used. It’s 8% of global emissions. It’s the second most used material in the world after water. So I think for me, it’s the scale of the impact it can have kind of blows my mind.
Brett
Let’s talk about timing. So January 2020, that’s probably an interesting time to start a company. So you start in January, you think okay, I’m ready for the roller coaster of entrepreneurship. And then three months later, I’m guessing you got kind of punched in the face by Covid. What was that, like those early days and you’re kind of building in Covid?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah. So that meant we had to do the fun startup thing of were going in my parents garage to scale this. So we had looked at getting some office space, and then, like you said, Covid hit so convinced parents that wed convert the garage into a lab. We bought our first machine off of eBay, and it was, how do we scale it? How can we kind of play with this? What does it mean? Like, how do we decarbonize the cement industry? So this was looking at this process called alkali fusion that we developed and seeing if this non heat process could scale. And we developed tons of material in the garage.
Brett
Wow, two tons of material.
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, I mean, it was a lot of dust. I mean, health and safety now would not allow us to do that.
Brett
That’s amazing. When it comes to the ICP, how are you thinking about that? Who are you going to really try to sell to and target first as you begin to commercialize this technology?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah. So for us, our first customers are probably going to be concrete manufacturers in the precast industry. So they’re making a factory. It’s controlled, it’s a lot lower risk for new products. There’s a lot more control in the process. But we are also starting with ready mix at the moment. So working with ready mix customers, how does that scale on site with all of the different nuances that come with that? I think the concrete manufacturing is sometimes an art as much as it is a science.
Brett
What’s it like or what do you anticipate it’s going to be like trying to sell to these traditional cement companies? I’m sure they’ve done things the same way forever. What are you going to do and what are you going to say to convince them to change?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, that’s a really great question. I think a lot of them are really open to changing. I think they know that it needs to be done. I think, well, especially in Europe, there’s so much push for it and everyone’s so aware of it. I think that the traditional industries are kind of really waking up to the impact they make. But don’t get me wrong, there are still customers in the market that don’t want to change, don’t want to do those things. They’ll always be, as we say in the company, customers who want to put concrete in holes but I think the change makers are really there and I think the market is really kind of open to new technologies.
Brett
Is the pitch really focused on sustainability or is there a cost savings element at all there or is it really about sustainability? And the sustainability pitch, does that come with an added cost or increased cost? I feel like normally products that are focused on sustainability, there is a cost increase.
Liz Gilligan
Yeah. So at the moment we do have a cost increase. There is a green premium of about 20%, but we are looking at how we can get that down. For us, it’s not just about the sustainability piece. There is a durability element. So our product has a 3d nanostructure inside of it which allows for it to be more durable, more fire resistant. Because I think that’s really important. There are some tweaks we can make to the chemistry to make you get early age strength, which is really important when you’re on a panic instruction site and you’re looking to move to different phases of it. So for us, I think we’re looking at sustainability as the right thing to do, but actually it still needs to meet all these other kind of benefits to really enter the market.
Brett
What’s the competitive landscape look like? Do you view other sustainable cement company as competitors or is the true competition just a status quo and the normal cement?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, I mean, I really think it’s great so many people are doing stuff in this space, it’s such a huge industry. I think the more people that can start to help tackle this, the better. I think. Like you said, I think the real competition is the status quo, the normal production of cement. I think the more startups that we have in this space also the less crazy everyone in this space looks.
Brett
It makes a lot of sense. What about from a regulatory perspective, is there regulatory change that’s either currently happening or it’s going to be happening? That’s going to tighten the controls a little bit and kind of force these companies to become more sustainable.
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, so definitely that there’s regulatory controls coming in terms of like carbon emissions, carbon taxes, things like that. And I also think the great thing is the regulations are changing in terms of how you can use new materials. So we’re on a group as part of the concrete zero initiative that’s changing how the standards are actually measuring. So usually they’re based on kind of materials, so like a recipe, but they’ve actually been changed now to be more about the kind of numbers, so the testing criteria, matching numbers. So im super excited for that. I think it doesnt just allow technologies like ours to fit into new standards. It actually allows for whole new types of materials and technologies that we havent even thought to be able to be used and tested. So for me, super exciting how the industry is embracing that.
Liz Gilligan
How were looking at how we standardize this, because I think the exciting thing is what can we do with materials? How do we test them? How do we understand them? How do we bring new science into this? Because science is so much better than when we started doing kind of the standardized testing. How do we bring that forward?
Brett
Makes a lot of sense as you begin to plan to commercialize here. What’s keeping you up at night? What do you think the biggest challenge is going to be?
Liz Gilligan
I think the biggest challenge we’re really finding at the moment is building factories are hard. I mean, we’re really trying to scale that at the moment. Building our first factory, I think the biggest thing is scaling a hardware or hard tech company is actually building factories. How do you, what’s the model for that? How do you fund the climate crisis? Like, how do you get capital to do that? How do you get that to align with your commercial? I think it’s almost a timing piece that becomes so crucial in how you scale these technologies.
Brett
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Brett
Building out these factories. I have to imagine that’s not easy to do. Can you just walk us or kind of like take us behind the scenes of what that’s like?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, building factories is much easier on spreadsheets than it is in real life. So I think we have problems with the electric supply. At one point, we didn’t think were going to be able to get on site for 18 months, which was devastating. We had problems with the great crested newt, so definitely need to protect it, but we had no idea that was an area that had them in. So we had to put up a newt fence, which was a whole kind of process. And newts are for everyone in the audience, probably the size of your finger. So you can imagine how fine that fence needs to be to make sure they get through I think it’s just coordinating so many moving parts and you need them to all come together perfectly.
Liz Gilligan
But to be fair, my co founder’s been doing amazing job of kind of holding that together, pulling that together. We also have kind of Biliao commercial kind of guy who’s spent a lot of time in the construction industry just pulling in favors, making sure it happens. So I think it’s trying to build the experience in. I think what we’re trying to do is learn as much as we can from this factory. What is the playbook we can get from this? How would we not do what we’ve done this time? Again, what lessons can we learn? And then how do we make this better for when we try to scale another factory, when it comes to the.
Brett
Output of this factory that you’re building, just so we can kind of wrap our heads around what it looks like. How much cement does a single family home wire, roughly? And then how many single family homes you provide cement for once this factory is up and running that capacity.
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, this is a great question. So a single family home, let’s assume it uses about 15 kind of concrete, and then let’s assume it’s a powder content of 500. We can make about 15,000 single family homes.
Brett
Wow. That’s incredible.
Liz Gilligan
Yes, it’s super exciting kind of number. I think for us it’s that piece of it kind of feeling a bit real, that’s actually scalable, that it can really change things and do that impact that we’ve all kind of been waiting for.
Brett
How many factories do you hope to build in the next decade? Do you have a number or is that thinking too big at this point? And you’re really focused on getting this first factory up and running and then scaling up from there?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s a great question. I think for us it’s more. We’re not 100% sure on the scaling model yet. I think for me it’s that gigatonne of Carbonous 2040 is what’s guiding us and what we’re looking at. Is it licensing? Is it a mega plant? Is it these smaller factories? And what really will help us get that impact?
Brett
Trey, is there any opposition against this approach? Is there anyone who’s against sustainable cement because it stands to disrupt the status quo? Are you dealing with anything like that? What I’ve seen when I’ve spoken with other founders who are building disruptive innovation, there’s always some haters, for lack of a better description, or some naysayers may be a better way to describe it. Is that something that you’ve experienced yet?
Liz Gilligan
I think we’ve been really lucky with who we’ve got to work with and the kind of amazing customers we have. But I definitely think there is differenting approaches in the industry and how they see this. So there is a lot of carbon capture or save the world. And I do think it plays a really important part. But I think we fundamentally have to change the way that we’re making materials and the materials we’re using. But I think for me, there’s so many great people doing great things. It’s really easy to avoid the people who don’t want to engage, who don’t this as the future. And for me, I don’t understand how they don’t see a future where it’s about sustainability.
Brett
As I mentioned there in the intro, you’ve raised about 19 million today. What have you learned about fundraising throughout this process so far?
Liz Gilligan
Yes, amazing question. I think for me, fundraising is a very personal thing. I think you really have to like the person across the table from you, because for me, money’s cheap, but having an investor that brings value, I think really changes it. I think it’s making sure you find the right people and the people behind the money who are going to help support you grow. And I think for me, that’s been the most important thing is finding amazing cheerleaders in every board seat you have and in every check you take, because that’s how we’re going to scale it with people, not just the money.
Brett
Trey, how do you find investors that can understand this space and help? Is it a sustainability focused investor? Is it a construction focused investor? Or is it a general purpose investor who just understands how to bring innovation to market? How have you thought about that?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, so we’re pretty lucky. I think we have a mix of kind of all three of them, which I think really helps with the discussions aboard. For me, it’s been really about the people behind the money, like, really being like, oh, we buy into them as well. Like, they’re really going to be there. They get it. And don’t be wrong. There’s bits of it they don’t get. And I think that’s okay. And that’s where you find experts, and that’s why you kind of look for different mentors in different spaces that can really help. But for me, I think it’s hard tech. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea and doesn’t align to everyone’s risk appetite. But I do think that hardware tech is how we’re going to change it. It’s the only way we can change the climate crisis.
Brett
Are you hopeful that we can change the climate crisis? Some days I feel hopeful. In other days it just seems like nothing’s happening. Everyone’s fighting, everyone’s squabbling. Are you hopeful that things are going to turn around?
Liz Gilligan
Yeah, I think you have to be optimistic. Otherwise it’s a very grim day. I think that so much technology coming through, there’s so much money being pumped into this, and I think there’s so much of an amazing community for change that I don’t see. I almost kind of think it’s inevitable. It’s going to change. We have to change. And I think there’s so many great initiative things happening and I think it’s kind of part of the human condition, right? Is to be like, how do we change this? How do we work together? And I think it’s super exciting, what is happening. And I definitely agree. There’s a lot of events I won’t go to because I think they’re just to talk about things that never really happen.
Liz Gilligan
But there are so many amazing events where you meet other founders that doing amazing things that really do make me feel super optimistic about tomorrow and climate change and all of those things.
Brett
Your optimism makes me feel more optimistic. So that’s good. It spreads. Let’s imagine that a founder comes to you and they say, liz, I want to build hard tech and I want to succeed. I want to bring it to market. It’s incredibly innovative. Based on everything that you’ve learned so far in your experience, what would be the number one piece of advice that you’d give to them?
Liz Gilligan
It’s a really good question. I think for me the biggest piece of advice would be make sure your techno economics stack. Make sure you aren’t relying on someone else’s supply chain to make this work and scale. And then get amazing customers on board. Get amazing cheerleaders who can help validate it. I think for me it’s almost, I’d want to be told my baby was ugly sooner than having spent years thinking it was great, and then have someone tell you that later on.
Brett
Makes a lot of sense and definitely useful advice there. Now, final question before we wrap up here, let’s zoom out into the future. So three to five years from today, what does the company look like?
Liz Gilligan
I think for me, in three to five years, we really want to have this first plant up and running. I think then it is the scaling option of this mega plant. So how would we scale again? How do we scale at the production capacity of a normal cement plant? And how do we look at additional business models and kind of markets? How do we really understand where we want to be? For us, this is all driven by emission reduction. And then in five years or three years, removing 12 million tons of carbon.
Brett
Amazing. I love the vision. I love the problem that you’re solving. I don’t think, I know I have a lot of aggregation for founders who tackle hard problems like this. I think there’s a lot of easy problems that you can go out and build, but it’s very important. And the world desperately needs more founders like you. So really enjoyed this conversation. I’m really excited to keep up with all the progress that you make on executing on this vision. And thank you for your time.
Liz Gilligan
No, thank you so much. It was great to chat.
Brett
Keep in touch.
Liz Gilligan
Thank you.
Brett
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